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Flight 93

Got any verified evidence of these military exercises?

I'm getting the feeling that jammonius has participated in many debates in which he was asked for evidence of his claims, and so now, in his present incarnation (not that I am suggesting there were previous incarnations), he has decided to turn the tables and demand direct evidence for each and every claim.

I suspect that he sees a request for evidence as simply a debating tactic to catch an opponent off guard. He certainly doesn't seem interested in actually gathering data about anything.

Why should he? In his mind, he already knows it all.
 
edit, there have been more responses.

Well, let's see what we have. Since I posted proof that something about FL 93 was prepared afterwards for a purpose having nothing whatever to do with investigation of FL 93, there have been nine responses. Two each by elmondo and wargord with one each from jimbenarm, jackonary and Big Al [add 1 by switchpoint and 1 by iratant].

Thanks to each and all for those respoonses.

Now, what are we to make of them as a whole? I think we're making progress, to tell you the truth. You folks are coming to recognize that FL 93 cannot be shown to have either flown or crashed on the basis of normal evidence from normal sources.

elmondo, who tends to save indications that he is reaching the point of recognition until the last part of his posts, had this to say:

"...the NTSB did indeed investigate the elements of the crash that were their responsibility..."

Thanks for that elmondo. That is ever so typical of 9/11. Always a limitation, a box, a curtailment. You did not say the NTSB investigated [FL 93], rather, you said NTSB investigated "elements of the crash" meaning they didn't investigate the crash itself.

Look, folks, the basic problem is that you don't require proof of 9/11, for if you did, you wouldn't be defending the indefensible. It is indefensible for NTSB to have investigated "elements of the crash" because that is not normal. Furthermore, if you're going to say NTSB investigated "elements of the crash" who investigated the crash itself, and what did that investigation result in and where are its findings to be found?

There was no investigation of the crash of FL 93 because there was no such thing.

The fact that something as sensitive as the examination of the gte phone calls, something that involves sensitivity towards victims and their families, relies on a claim of investigation done, what, years or months later for another purpose, is utterly indefensible.

Please stop assuming the evidence is there when it isn't. Stop relying on indirect, second-hand sources. As I said before, the jig is up.

There is no valid proof of the proposition that FL 93 crashed in PA on 9/11/01 and you cannot post any, even if you tried. I am not making this up. The most recent serious effort to post up proof consisted in the cell phone proof. I have conclusively shown that proof fails because it wasn't prepared for purpose of proving FL 93 crashed. By its own plain language, it was prepared at a later date for the Moussaoui trial. That means it was prepared by individuals who had no responsibility for investigating FL 93 and was, instead, prepared by folks who had an agenda of framing up Zacarias Moussaoui.

The artful dodger. Predictable. Well done.
 
He claims that there were no flights. This is insane. He's paranoid / delusional. Not worth debating anymore.
 
Yes, the bandwidth would be better used on Crop Circles. :)
We gots them all over the place!
Real ones.
 
There was no investigation of the crash of FL 93 because there was no such thing.

Wow. Really. Wow, what else can you say?

This is a breathtaking level of denial.

The next step is it didn't happen at all and then we are talking about a serious disconnect from reality.
 
Got any verified evidence of these military exercises?

hokulele,

The jig is up. I have said many times now that the time for posting various newspaper clippings, back and forth, to and fro, hither and thither is over. There is no valid source of information confirming any position that can be taken on the events of 9/11 because the event has never been properly investigated.

As far as the exercises are concerned, various military officials, like say, General Arnold told various cover stories about the existence of military exercies on 9/11. The problem is, of course, the 9/11 Commission Report is fraudulent, so it cannot be relied on for much,

You can decide whether you believe General Arnold or not.

Do you believe him; and, if so, why?

Here's what he said:

"GEN. ARNOLD: Thank you, sir, and I will try to do that to the best of my ability. And perhaps General McKinley has some data that he could shed light on, because I have been retired a little while, and do not have access to the staff for some of the very specifics on that. But I will try to do my best.

As you know from previous testimony from General Eberhardt to Congress, we were in the middle of a NORAD exercise at that particular time, which means that basically our entire staff was focused on being able to do the air operations center mission, which was our job to do. We had just come out of a video teleconference with the NORAD staff and with our folks at that particular time, when I was handed a note that we had a possible hijacking at Boston center, and it had come from the Northeast Air Defense Command, Colonel Bob Mahr (ph), who is commander up there, and he had requested that I call him immediately. And I was upstairs in our facility, immediately went downstairs, picked up the phone, asking on the way to my staff, "Is this part of the exercise?" Because quite honestly, and frankly we do do hijacking scenarios as we go through these exercises from time to time. But I realized that it was not. This was real life.

And I also remembered as I went downstairs, before I even talked to him, that it had been a long time since we had had a hijacking, but the fact that we had reviewed the procedures of what it is we do for a hijacking, because we were in the middle of an exercise. So we were pretty well familiar with those procedures, and of course we have our own checklist that we follow.

As I picked up the phone, Bob told me that Boston Center had called possible hijacking within the system. He had put the aircraft at Otis on battle stations, wanted permission to scramble them. I told them to go ahead and scramble the airplanes and we'd get permission later. And the reason for that is that the procedure -- hijacking is a law enforcement issue, as is everything that takes off from within the United States. And only law enforcement can request assistance from the military, which they did in this particular case. The route, if you follow the book, is they go to the duty officer of the national military center, who in turn makes an inquiry to NORAD for the availability of fighters, who then gets permission from someone representing the secretary of Defense. Once that is approved then we scramble aircraft. We didn't wait for that. We scrambled the aircraft, told them get airborne, and we would seek clearances later. I picked up the phone, called NORAD, whose battle staff was in place because of the exercise, talked to the deputy commander for operations. He said, you know, "I understand, and we'll call the Pentagon for those particular clearances." It was simultaneous almost for that decision that we made that I am looking at the TV monitor of the news network and see a smoking hole in what turned out to be the North Tower of the World Trade Center, wondering, What is this? And like many of us involved in that, Does it have anything to do with this particular incident? Which we didn't think it did, because we were talking Boston Center, and we were not thinking of the immediate New York metropolitan area. Shortly after that, of course our airplanes became airborne. It just so happens that Colonel Duffy, who was a pilot of that first F-15, had been involved in some conversation because, as telephone calls were made, he was aware that there was a hijacking in the system. It's kind of interesting because he concluded that that indeed might have been that airplane himself, and [he]elected to hit the afterburner and to speed up his way towards New York.

It was then very shortly thereafter that we saw on television the second airplane, United 175, crash into the South Tower. And the first thing that I think most of us felt was, was this a rerun of the first event? And then it turned out to be the second event. We had no warning of that whatsoever. In fact, that airplane was called possibly hijacked later on, which as General McKinley referred to, as the fog and friction of war, actually caused further confusion, because we were not aware which aircraft actually crashed into the towers. We just knew that by now we had two airplanes that have crashed into the towers. We have two airplanes that are called hijacked. Again, we are still minutes away -- I think the record said eight minutes away from New York City with F-15s that are moving very rapidly in that direction."

http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/web...earing2/9-11Commission_Hearing_2003-05-23.htm
 
Wow. Really. Wow, what else can you say?

This is a breathtaking level of denial.

The next step is it didn't happen at all and then we are talking about a serious disconnect from reality.
Ya think? This is veering into 'vicsims' territory. Pure delusion.

ETA - I have been in NYC for 2 hours and I have had someone bring up 9/11 twice already in casual conversation. I can't imagine that a preponderance of 'truth' movement types live in this state. Just about everybody knows someone who was on those flights, or maybe the same flight # a few days prior / after. Crazy talk, that there were no flights.
 
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hokulele,

The jig is up. I have said many times now that the time for posting various newspaper clippings, back and forth, to and fro, hither and thither is over. There is no valid source of information confirming any position that can be taken on the events of 9/11 because the event has never been properly investigated.

As far as the exercises are concerned, various military officials, like say, General Arnold told various cover stories about the existence of military exercies on 9/11. The problem is, of course, the 9/11 Commission Report is fraudulent, so it cannot be relied on for much,

You can decide whether you believe General Arnold or not.

Do you believe him; and, if so, why?


Documented testimony and government reports are fine when they support what you want to believe, but aren't when they do not?


Hmmm....
 
Wow. Really. Wow, what else can you say?

This is a breathtaking level of denial.

The next step is it didn't happen at all and then we are talking about a serious disconnect from reality.

switchpoint,

You're finally getting it. In connection with the common myth of 9/11, we are talking about a serious disconnect from reality. This is very serious. The population of the US has been subjected to a horrific psyop, the nature, the extent of which and the consequences are of an unprecedented magnitude.

The US must undergo the necessary catharctic awakening at some point. The sooner the better, otherwise other and further such events are likely to continue to occur. The financial collapse of 2008 and the subsequent transfer of public wealth to private interests, in exchange for the public taking on the debt, is another example, of another type of psyop.

The Underwear bomber deal is, perhaps, the most recent one; albeit on a smaller scale and degree of magnitude. The 2007 attempted heist of a nuke could have exceeded 9/11 had they actually got away with the nuke. The jury is still out on that one, perhaps, in that I'm not sure we know exactly what happened and what the outcome was.

So, that slight digression was intended to confirm that "yes" the level of denial is breathtaking. The only outstanding issue is when will people, in their one by ones and their two by twos come to grips with the reality of 9/11?

How close to breakthrough are you?

Let's make an exception here. Try this: Post up what you consider to be the single best piece of evidence confirming the hijacking and the crash of FL 93 on 9/11/01. Please provide your source for whatever it is you choose to rely on. Once again, the time for this sort of game is past, but you are, after all, kind of new, so you post up what you think is your best evidence.
 
Ya think? This is veering into 'vicsims' territory. Pure delusion.

ETA - I have been in NYC for 2 hours and I have had someone bring up 9/11 twice already in casual conversation. I can't imagine that a preponderance of 'truth' movement types live in this state. Just about everybody knows someone who was on those flights, or maybe the same flight # a few days prior / after. Crazy talk, that there were no flights.

Yeah, now what you mean. My sister was in WTC 1(?) that morning to return a birthday gift. Saw the first plane hit the building. Can't wait to tell her she won't have those nightmares anymore - because it really didn't happen!!
 
Oh, now you are appealing to emotion, so jammonius won't have to enage you right? Next jammonius can explain why government sources are not to be trusted with flight 93 DNA, but are to be believed when General Arnold talks about military exercises.
 
hokulele,

The jig is up. I have said many times now that the time for posting various newspaper clippings, back and forth, to and fro, hither and thither is over. There is no valid source of information confirming any position that can be taken on the events of 9/11 because the event has never been properly investigated.

What you are saying here is that the events on 9/11 didn't happen because there is no "valid source" of information due to the lack of a "proper investigation." That means nothing on 9/11 happened. That means the Twin Towers are still standing, hell, to whole WTC complex is still standing as it was on 9/10. That also means that nothing ever happened. Nothing, meaning you don't exist, we don't exist, what you are reading doesn't exist; NOTHING.

As far as the exercises are concerned, various military officials, like say, General Arnold told various cover stories about the existence of military exercies on 9/11. The problem is, of course, the 9/11 Commission Report is fraudulent, so it cannot be relied on for much,

How can you believe exercises were taking place on 9/11 when you say nothing happened on that day? Where is the "valid source" of information from the "proper investigation" that proves these exercises? And remember, you brought up these exercises as evidence to prove your claim that there were no flights or crashes that day.
There is no evidence of flights, let alone crashes. Go look at the data, yourself. Start with the military exercises that simulated hijackings and crashing planes into buildings and go from there.

How do you reconcile your belief in the exercises to your belief that there is no "valid source" of information due to the lack of a "proper investigation?"
 
The US must undergo the necessary catharctic awakening at some point.

What we have awakened to is that the ct's are nutso. Sorry, Charlie, but the country has largely moved on. Your moment in the spotlight has come and gone. Nobody who matters bought any of your carp. Time to throw the rotting carcass of 9/11 Truth back into the pond. It just stinks up the place.

So, that slight digression was intended to confirm that "yes" the level of denial is breathtaking. The only outstanding issue is when will people, in their one by ones and their two by twos come to grips with the reality of 9/11?

You mean the reality of 19 muslim men with boxcutters hijacking airplanes and flying them into buildings? I think we got that back in 2001. When are YOU going to get it?
 
And I was upstairs in our facility, immediately went downstairs, picked up the phone, asking on the way to my staff, "Is this part of the exercise?" Because quite honestly, and frankly we do do hijacking scenarios as we go through these exercises from time to time. But I realized that it was not. This was real life.

Oh my God!! That's it CASE CLOSED! It was an inside job FOR SURE! I mean, what more do you need - the military was conducting exercises! How often does that happen!!

What? Every day? Really?

Well, back to square one.
 
switchpoint,

You're finally getting it. In connection with the common myth of 9/11, we are talking about a serious disconnect from reality. This is very serious. The population of the US has been subjected to a horrific psyop, the nature, the extent of which and the consequences are of an unprecedented magnitude.

The US must undergo the necessary catharctic awakening at some point. The sooner the better, otherwise other and further such events are likely to continue to occur. The financial collapse of 2008 and the subsequent transfer of public wealth to private interests, in exchange for the public taking on the debt, is another example, of another type of psyop.

The Underwear bomber deal is, perhaps, the most recent one; albeit on a smaller scale and degree of magnitude. The 2007 attempted heist of a nuke could have exceeded 9/11 had they actually got away with the nuke. The jury is still out on that one, perhaps, in that I'm not sure we know exactly what happened and what the outcome was.

So, that slight digression was intended to confirm that "yes" the level of denial is breathtaking. The only outstanding issue is when will people, in their one by ones and their two by twos come to grips with the reality of 9/11?

How close to breakthrough are you?

Let's make an exception here. Try this: Post up what you consider to be the single best piece of evidence confirming the hijacking and the crash of FL 93 on 9/11/01. Please provide your source for whatever it is you choose to rely on. Once again, the time for this sort of game is past, but you are, after all, kind of new, so you post up what you think is your best evidence.

You are new to an old done thing. No kudos here kid. 9 years and you have nothing but old talk. Have you contacted the Felts yet? Do it now. Its important. No middleman. Come back when ya have. Or are you a coward just full of hot air?
 
Oh my God!! That's it CASE CLOSED! It was an inside job FOR SURE! I mean, what more do you need - the military was conducting exercises! How often does that happen!!

What? Every day? Really?

Well, back to square one.

switchpoint,

You're about to wear out your rookie status. I asked you to post up the single best piece of evidence you have for the claim FL93 was hijacked and crashed on 9/11. You didn't do it; and, instead, merely argued a piece of evidence I, and not you, posted up that was in response to another poster who hadn't posted up any evidence, either.

The thread is slipping badly again. Its pointless if you folks aren't going to come to your senses and start realizing your beliefs in the explanation of what happened on 9/11, FL 93 among them, are not based on any rationally documented explanation of those events.

We're almost at the point where you might just as well return to arguing back and forth as to whether FL 93 got shot down or was caused to crash because the passengers rushed the flight deck.

You are certainly welcome to do that, you know. I have done what I could.
 
You are around the bend there buddy.

You have either looked at everything to look at over the last nine years and your progressive psychosis has prohibited you from making the necessary cognetive connections, or you've never looked at any of it. With either case the exercise of presenting anything to you is obviously fruitless. You have your delusional inventions which protect you from self correction. Like any well formed delusion, it is not subject to intellectual appeal. Maybe group therapy.
 
beachnut,

You can do this. You can come to your senses. You're a pilot, so you can a) distinguish a fuselage from a jetliner from a cargo carrier of some sort; and b) you also know how jetliner parts are identified for investigation purposes; namely with serial numbers; and c) you don't use field photos to identify plane parts, you use validated reports.

Come on beachnut, i am counting on you to come to your senses. You're getting close, now please achieve breakhtough. Come on beachnut, come on.

I don't think you know Beechnut well enough to say that.
 
The thread is slipping badly again. Its pointless if you folks aren't going to come to your senses and start realizing your beliefs in the explanation of what happened on 9/11, FL 93 among them, are not based on any rationally documented explanation of those events.

Uh-huh. And this is?

This is very serious. The population of the US has been subjected to a horrific psyop, the nature, the extent of which and the consequences are of an unprecedented magnitude.

Drama-queen troll.
 

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