Flight 77 flight path

[mudlark]

"Coaching" her? He was simply giving her information about what he saw so that she could relay that information to the media.

To an untrained eye (Vignola), the plane might appear white (reflections ect.). But Timmerman is a pilot. And he was pretty sure it was an AA plane. Do you think Timmerman lied?

So he was relaying HIS testimony through HER.
The point is that this interview by phone was being treated as HER testimony.
It was Timmerman´s. That´s all that is being conveyed by the term ´coaching´ in this instance.

 

[tj15]

So he was relaying HIS testimony through HER.
The point is that this interview by phone was being treated as HER testimony.
It was Timmerman´s. That´s all that is being conveyed by the term ´coaching´ in this instance.

OK, so is Timmerman a liar or not?

 

[Edx]

Why don´t you get in touch with Dawn Vignola to confirm the footage?

It may well be real, but its still painfully bad. Why did Craig and Aldo record such bad footage several feet back in the room whip panning around if they wanted to prove Timmerman couldnt see what he said he saw?

How did Timmerman know details he couldnt have seen?

Why was Timmerman lying?

Why was Timmerman feeding information to Vignola ?

Is it because... he's "in on it"? Just admit it, its okay. You've already implicated 10s of thousands whats one more?

 

[Mr.Herbert]

Here´s a still. Tell me if you can see the lawn. Tell me if you can see the approach to the lawn. Tell me how he saw through this building.

Hey, Dom... how did he miss the flyover? Don't you think he would have noticed a 757 flying 4 feet above the Pentagon?

Now hurry along, I'm sure the library is closing soon and your mom has dinner on the table for you.

 

[mudlark]

It's not, CITologist. You and your bum chums are obviously too stupid to realize that the witnesses misremembered the exact flight path.

AGAIN.... they SAW THE PLANE HIT THE PENTAGON.

Hey Einstein, if you were there and three-five years later you were asked what happened...what would be more clear to you? The exact location of the plane, or the impact?

Thank you.

All of them ´misremembered´?
So the plane was actually flying over the Citgo on the right hand sideso those 3 witnesses, Lagasse, Brooks and Turcios could not distinguish between right and left? Worse still both Lagasse and Brooks ´misremembered´ in the exact same way. They both drew an exact copy of the ´misremembered´ flightpath? aahh..ok.

The ANC workers ´misremembered´ which side of the Annex they saw the plane appear? So when they said it had it´s right wing tipped it was actually flying AWAY from the scene. William Middleton ´felt the heat of the plane´ from a fair distance then huh?
They ran for their lives and described it heading right for them in the ANC parking lot but in reality they were way off.

Boger was way off too then.

You DO realize that when the plane reaches Citgo, this is the point of no return in regards to hitting lightpole 1 and 2?

I would personally remember a bigass plane 50-100 ft agl heading my way and where I saw it just as much as the fireball.

That they all misremembered to such a degree is ridiculous.
I don´t question the BELIEF of SOME or that of any other witness who says they saw an impact. What I do question is the physical possibility of the plane reaching the lightpoles from NOC and the subsequent damage.

 

[tj15]

All of them ´misremembered´?
So the plane was actually flying over the Citgo on the right hand sideso those 3 witnesses, Lagasse, Brooks and Turcios could not distinguish between right and left? Worse still both Lagasse and Brooks ´misremembered´ in the exact same way. They both drew an exact copy of the ´misremembered´ flightpath? aahh..ok.

[qimg]http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/lagassepov.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/robertflightpath2.jpg[/qimg]

The ANC workers ´misremembered´ which side of the Annex they saw the plane appear? So when they said it had it´s right wing tipped it was actually flying AWAY from the scene. William Middleton ´felt the heat of the plane´ from a fair distance then huh?
They ran for their lives and described it heading right for them in the ANC parking lot but in reality they were way off.

[qimg]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/Pentagon/gifs/ancgif2.gif[/qimg]

Boger was way off too then.

[qimg]http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/SeanBogersPOV.jpg[/qimg]

You DO realize that when the plane reaches Citgo, this is the point of no return in regards to hitting lightpole 1 and 2?

I would personally remember a bigass plane 50-100 ft agl heading my way and where I saw it just as much as the fireball.

That they all misremembered to such a degree is ridiculous.
I don´t question the BELIEF of SOME or that of any other witness who says they saw an impact. What I do question is the physical possibility of the plane reaching the lightpoles from NOC and the subsequent damage.

So when witnesses like Timmerman and Petitt put the plane south of Citgo, they are liars? Or just wrong and should be ignored?

 

[lapman]

Here´s a still. Tell me if you can see the lawn. Tell me if you can see the approach to the lawn. Tell me how he saw through this building.
The cam positioning had to be from that angle to see the Sheraton clearly.
There is a bigass building blocking the view.
There is a red circle on it just in case you don´t know where it is.

[qimg]http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/vignolacircle-1.jpg[/qimg]

Why don´t you get in touch with Dawn Vignola to confirm the footage?

This only shows that eyewitness testimony cannot be the main source of evidence. This only proves that your "confirmed and verified" eyewitness statements are not reliable as well. So we have to go with the physical evidence. You still haven't provided even one shread of evidence that proves that the debris, DNA, jet fuel, etc. was planted. You still can't explain how all the physical evidence got all over the lawn that was in plain view of everyone got there. You haven't been able to even explain how the light poles got knocked over while everyone was looking. When are you going to do this?

 

[twinstead]

This only shows that eyewitness testimony cannot be the main source of evidence. This only proves that your "confirmed and verified" eyewitness statements are not reliable as well. So we have to go with the physical evidence. You still haven't provided even one shread of evidence that proves that the debris, DNA, jet fuel, etc. was planted. You still can't explain how all the physical evidence got all over the lawn that was in plain view of everyone got there. You haven't been able to even explain how the light poles got knocked over while everyone was looking. When are you going to do this?

I honestly think that in his mind all he has to do is find a few witnesses who say what he wants to hear and he doesn't have to deal with all the physical evidence. He doesn't care about it. In his mind the plane HAD to fly over (even though nobody saw it) so the physical evidence HAD to have been faked.

What he doesn't realize of course that we could do the same thing in reverse. Since all the physical evidence points to the plane hitting the Pentagon, we could care less about his witnesses. The plane HAD to have crashed into the Pentagon so his witnesses HAVE to be mistaken.

See how easy that is?

 

[tj15]

I honestly think that in his mind all he has to do is find a few witnesses who say what he wants to hear and he doesn't have to deal with all the physical evidence. He doesn't care about it. In his mind the plane HAD to fly over (even though nobody saw it) so the physical evidence HAD to have been faked.

What he doesn't realize of course that we could do the same thing in reverse. Since all the physical evidence points to the plane hitting the Pentagon, we could care less about his witnesses. The plane HAD to have crashed into the Pentagon so his witnesses HAVE to be mistaken.

See how easy that is?

And not only that, there are witnesses that place the plane south of Citgo. So the witnesses contradict each other... Further proving that eyewitness testimony is pretty unreliable.

 

[beachnut]

All the CIT witnesses cannot draw a god view of the path of Flight 77, they were all on the ground and their ability to describe a path of a jet going 800 feet per second is limited after years.

If they were told about the lampposts, they would all agree on the path and if a real investigator was there and it was needed to know the path, we would fly a helo low and get the path confirmed.

But we know the path, it was littered with debris because Flight 77 hit lampposts and CIT are pathetic morons when it comes to investigation of high speed aircraft impacts.

Mudlark has to suspend rational thought processes to embrace the pure stupid of CIT. mudlark, just add water to CIT and shake

 

[tj15]

Mudlark... It sounds like this guy should have seen the flyover. But he says no such thing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HBjxYrhI4E&feature=PlayList&p=6FA2A860385F97EC&index=0&playnext=1

 

[mudlark]

So the FDR got in the Pentagon how? How did the DNA get there?

The FDR has a story all of its own on how it got there.
I´ve said repeatedly here that the DNA retrieval and identification, especially that of the passengers, needs to be proven through documentation.
´Twoofers´ are repeatedly asked for proof on any evidence. Same goes for the DNA.

Have you told the families their loved ones were not killed by terrorists, but by some unknown nut case conspiracy theory you can't define?]

April Gallup has began legal precedings against Cheney, Rumsfeld, Myers and other officials with the help of one of those ´nut case conspiracy´ investigators.
Pilotsfor911truth. That affidavit quotes the following on behalf of Ms Gallup.

We concluded that:
(1.) The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support official events.
(2.) All Altitude data shows the aircraft at least 300 feet too high to have struck the Case 1:08-cv-10881-DC Document 17-5 Filed 06/29/2009 Page 2 of light poles.
(3.) The rate of descent data is in direct conflict with the aircraft being able to impact the light poles and be captured in the Dept of Defense "5 Frames" video of an object traveling nearly parallel with the Pentagon lawn.
(4.) The record of data stops at least one second prior to official impact time.
(5.) If data trends are continued, the aircraft altitude would have been at least 100 feet too high to have hit the Pentagon.
(6) The NTSB and FBI have been contacted and refuse to comment.
The foregoing is true and correct.

More families connected to the Pentagon attack have previously signed a petition that would be branded a ´conspiracy nut theory´ here.

¨NEW YORK CITY, NY (Oct. 26, 2004)(Updated Sep. 11, 2009) - An alliance of 100 prominent Americans and 40 (updated to 53) family members of those killed on 9/11 today announced the release of the 911 Truth Statement, a call for immediate inquiry into evidence that suggests high-level government officials may have deliberately allowed the September 11th attacks to occur.¨

Among those were:

Jonathan M. Fisher, son of Dr. Gerald Paul "Geep" Fisher, Pentagon
Irene Golinsky, wife of Col. Ronald F. Golinski USA RET, Pentagon
David Yancey, husband of Vicki Yancey, American Airlines Flight 77
Jean Hunt, disabled survivor of Pentagon attack

These are family members who publically questioned 9/11. There are more from the other 3 incidents. Families who accepted the compensation fund are contractually binded to waiver right to sue

Importantly, of course, the award of compensation is contingent upon waiver of the right to file, or to be a party to, a civil damages action in Federal or State court “for damages sustained as a result” of the 9/11 crashes.
...

Interestingly, the waiver of a claimant’s right to file suit does not become effective upon a claimant’s receipt of an award or even the Special Master’s determination of the claimant’s eligibility. It takes effect “pon submission of a claim.” Section 405(c)(3)(B)(i); 115 Stat. 240. A person with an already-pending civil action under this title may indeed file a claim for compensation from the Fund, but only if he withdraws from such action by the date that is 90 days after the date on which regulations are promulgated under section
407.” Id. The statute is silent on the waiver obligation, if any, of a claimant who seeks—but ultimately is denied—Fund compensation.

I 100% respect the families who believe the attacks were carried out by OBL but these people must be given due respect too.

You never debunked one of the 136 witnesses. Why do all the CIT witnesses agree Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, but you twist their testimony given years after the event into some lame moronic delusion where Flight 77 never hit the Pentagon.

I´ve been thrown numbers throughout this thread about 104, 136, 150, ´hundreds´ of witnesses without actually seeing specific names.
I´m not twisting anything. I´m asking how these NOC witnesses could have seen what they described and the subsequent damage from the lightpoles onwards.

Where is Flight 77? The RADAR track ends at the Pentagon. Oops. Science proves your ideas are delusions shared by a select few paranoid conspiracy theorists armed with 11.2G failed physics and the worse investigators in history, CIT.

The RADES data matches the FDR data but NONE of the CORRABORATIVE witness testimonies.

So the FAA, NTSB, Navy, USAF, DoD employees, Army, Firemen, police, doctors, DNA specialist, and the FBI all conspired to do 911 and you have the evidence but it was eaten by your dog? Is that about right?

Did I say all these people were involved? Why would most of the people you mention HAVE to be involved??

Flight path verified by FDR, witnesses, and RADAR. You should go talk the the witnesses yourself, all of the CIT witnesses point to the south flight path on video; must take a great deal of ignorance to not know the direction people are pointing and CIT personify complete ignorance.

Again FDR readings that cast suspicion in the first place. The revised pilotsfor911truth calculations have the G-Force REQUIRED from the VDOT Tower at 10.14..!
The altimeter has the plane at nearly 300ft agl at the time of impact.
Which witnesses??
That´s a total lie about the CIT witnesses. They DID interview them. It´s on record.

 

[mudlark]

I´ll get to the rest of your posts. I´m going through them one by one from where I left off.
I don´t want to be accused of ´avoiding´ or ´ignoring´ posts again.

Peace.

 

[mudlark]

You might want to calm down first, then take a look at the glaring contradictions and double standards CIT makes.

I am/was calm. I was answering in the same manner I was questioned.
Umm..and your point is? Please feel free to quote the ´glaring contradictions´ in posts that I myself have posted.
I will refrain from quoting contradictions from other people´s posts such as impact is ´possible´ from NOC...oh wait..that was you. Mybad.

 

[beachnut]

The FDR has a story all of its own on how it got there.
I´ve said repeatedly here that the DNA retrieval and identification, especially that of the passengers, needs to be proven through documentation.
´Twoofers´ are repeatedly asked for proof on any evidence. Same goes for the DNA.



April Gallup has began legal precedings against Cheney, Rumsfeld, Myers and other officials with the help of one of those ´nut case conspiracy´ investigators.
Pilotsfor911truth. That affidavit quotes the following on behalf of Ms Gallup.



More families connected to the Pentagon attack have previously signed a petition that would be branded a ´conspiracy nut theory´ here.



Among those were:

Jonathan M. Fisher, son of Dr. Gerald Paul "Geep" Fisher, Pentagon
Irene Golinsky, wife of Col. Ronald F. Golinski USA RET, Pentagon
David Yancey, husband of Vicki Yancey, American Airlines Flight 77
Jean Hunt, disabled survivor of Pentagon attack

These are family members who publically questioned 9/11. There are more from the other 3 incidents. Families who accepted the compensation fund are contractually binded to waiver right to sue



I 100% respect the families who believe the attacks were carried out by OBL but these people must be given due respect too.



I´ve been thrown numbers throughout this thread about 104, 136, 150, ´hundreds´ of witnesses without actually seeing specific names.
I´m not twisting anything. I´m asking how these NOC witnesses could have seen what they described and the subsequent damage from the lightpoles onwards.



The RADES data matches the FDR data but NONE of the CORRABORATIVE witness testimonies.



Did I say all these people were involved? Why would most of the people you mention HAVE to be involved??



Again FDR readings that cast suspicion in the first place. The revised pilotsfor911truth calculations have the G-Force REQUIRED from the VDOT Tower at 10.14..!
The altimeter has the plane at nearly 300ft agl at the time of impact.
Which witnesses??
That´s a total lie about the CIT witnesses. They DID interview them. It´s on record.

The RADES data and the FDR match all the witnesses, you are not trained to take witness statements or analyze them. I was trained by the USAF in accident investigation and nothing CIT has claimed is valid.

The best part is if you use Boger at all, he has 77 impacting the Pentagon exactly where Flight 77 hit. Oops, you are debunked by your own witness.

Too bad CIT never were trained. Why do you fall for the moronic overflight?

You have not dented one of the 136 witnesses. What is the problem?

136 witnesses beat your 13 witnesses who all agree that 77 impacted the Pentagon and knocked down the lamppost. Sad


Here is how the failed paths work. All the witnesses saw 77 for an instant in the air, there is no way they can accurately describe the ground track from where they were. So they saw 77 in the air, that matches the path 77 took. The paths draw are impossible due to G force. Use some math and physics and stop posting stupid stuff from CIT and p4t.

When you prove the DNA is fake, and the FDR is fake, and the RADAR data is fake, and all 136 witnesses I presented are fake, you will have a Pulitzer Prize. But you never will, you will be a fantasy believer, an anti-intellectual failed idea supporter. A terrorist apologist to follow the terrorists loyalist at p4t and CIT who lie to forgive the terrorists and blame whoever they hate. Join them it is so sad to see people jump into the pit of ignorance with no knowledge how to build the ladder of knowledge. How long will it take you to rise from the pit?

You never did give me the turn radii, or the energy of impact for your failed ideas; when will you do that simple stuff?

 

[dtugg]

How come you ignore the fact that all of your own witnesses say the plane hit the Pentagon, CITiot? It's almost as if you are only cherry picking what you want to hear. But you wouldn't do that, would you?

 

[mudlark]

Thank you for debunking yourself. Since you cannot provide even one single piece of evidence that proves that the plane did not crash into the building, you are proving that your precious eyewitnesses are mistaken on the location of the flight path. Since all other evidence supports the SOC flight path, there could be no other. We look at the entire body of evidence. You just cherry pick the few pieces that support your fantasy while completely ignoring everything else.

Say what now?
They are not ´my precious witnesses´. Why not interview them yourself with the same tone? Surely you can convince them that they didn´t see what they said they saw.

The reason I would not ´ignore´ them as has been previously suggested is because they corraborate eachother from the Annex, through NOC, away from any physically possible manouevre to reach the first lightpoles.
Please link me to VERIFIABLE DOCUMENTED evidence. Not the word of agencies. Actual documented proof.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Again FDR readings that cast suspicion in the first place. The revised pilotsfor911truth calculations have the G-Force REQUIRED from the VDOT Tower at 10.14..!

Rob Balsamo's calculation was off by a factor of 5: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/will/Music/Jokes/Balsamo/balsamo2.html

The altimeter has the plane at nearly 300ft agl at the time of impact.

The last radar altitude recorded by the FDR was 4 feet: http://www.warrenstutt.com/

Will

 

[Edx]

Legasse said he saw plane debris Mud, why do you ignore that? probably because in the same interview he said it clipped light poles and one of them hit a black and orange cab, right? Cuz he's lying then but telling the truth with CIT right?

 

[lapman]

Say what now?
They are not ´my precious witnesses´. Why not interview them yourself with the same tone? Surely you can convince them that they didn´t see what they said they saw.

The reason I would not ´ignore´ them as has been previously suggested is because they corraborate eachother from the Annex, through NOC, away from any physically possible manouevre to reach the first lightpoles.
Please link me to VERIFIABLE DOCUMENTED evidence. Not the word of agencies. Actual documented proof.

Sorry, I go with what the physical evidence shows. People's recollection can be wrong and a small percentage that recollect something different than the majority is to be expected with such a large number of eyewitnesses. Since, as you claim, there is no way the plane could have crashed if it flew NOC, then it didn't fly NOC. The onus is on you to prove that the physical evidence is fake. Once you prove that it's fake, then your NOC eyewitness statements will start carrying some weight.