Flight 77 FDR Data created before black boxes were recovered

[deep]

Okay, we're bored. Time to send you on your way:

Who should conduct your new investigation, given that you must exclude all real physicists, structural engineers, metallurgists, demolition experts, fire safety specialists, seismologists, avionics techs, pilots, forensic examiners, police and fire personnel, etc.?

That's a silly requirement. It doesn't matter who conducts it, as long as it's a thorough and 100% transparent investigation. Remember, NIST ignored the most puzzling parts of the WTC1/2 collapse (e.g., dust, collapse time, molten steel), and completely ignored WTC7 at first (it remains to be seen if their eventual report will address the partially evaporated steel members).

So basically, they should investigate 9/11 like they would any other murder.

 

[deep]

But none of us here need one bit of their evidence to debunk the "truthers."

Funny, huh?

No, it's not very funny at all, because that means you're accepting their word without considering all of the evidence. If you're not curious how one of the world's largest buildings can collapse in under 10 seconds, leaving partially evaporated steel and pools of molten metal behind, then you're doing a disservice to the victims.

Not funny.

 

[deep]

So once again we have a thread where a truther tenaciously clutches at a piece of absolute nothing like it was a diamond because, in the end, that's all they even have. A few pieces of nothing.

God damn, what a lousy way to go through life.

No, as I said before, you combine this with the other evidence, and examine all of it. You're telling me that it just so happened that the FDR data was corrupted in that it didn't show the plane traveling low enough to hit any light poles, it malfunctioned and cut off several seconds earlier than it should have, and the file they're distributing was created before the actual FDR was found because of a clock malfunction on someone's computer.

That's not even mentioning all of the other problems - like their refusal to release any video evidence showing the impact of the plane itself, the invisible wreckage, etc.

You can look through every single one of those anomalies and say, "well, here's another possible explanation for that, even though I have no proof of it", and then ultimately say, "nope, no proof of anything funny going on here".

Okie-dokie.

 

[Arus808]

No, as I said before, you combine this with the other evidence, and examine all of it.

first you want to hAVE evidence. a silly timestamp is not evidence of anything conspiratory, nor dishonesty. It just shows that a time is different on one file. whoopee do.

NOw, please point out all this "other" evidence. and it better not be some silly file with the date wrong on it

 

[BenBurch]

No, it's not very funny at all, because that means you're accepting their word without considering all of the evidence. If you're not curious how one of the world's largest buildings can collapse in under 10 seconds, leaving partially evaporated steel and pools of molten metal behind, then you're doing a disservice to the victims.

Not funny.

Only an ass would think that.

I reached all my own conclusions while TRYING to find something to prosecute then Bush Goons for.

 

[johnny karate]

That's a silly requirement. It doesn't matter who conducts it, as long as it's a thorough and 100% transparent investigation. Remember, NIST ignored the most puzzling parts of the WTC1/2 collapse (e.g., dust, collapse time, molten steel), and completely ignored WTC7 at first (it remains to be seen if their eventual report will address the partially evaporated steel members).

So basically, they should investigate 9/11 like they would any other murder.

Here's a thought: Peel yourself away from the computer screen, rally your fellow Truthers, and actually do something to initiate your new investigation.

No one is stopping you, and I think I can safely say on behalf of all of us, we're pretty damn bored with the constant, whining pleas your movement spews in place of actual constructive action.

 

[Burrell]

Deep44, with respect, some of us should be considered the Jury here, in so far as we are your fellow global citizens, without any prejudged ideas. It is you that should try and convince us that your point of view is valid.

Consider Perry Maison standing up in court and instead of letting Paul go off and find out what really happened he tells the jury to get off their chairs and go and investigate...
...it is up to you to convince me that there is more to the current answer than has been told.

Currently I have 'joined the dots' and 'considered the evidence' and it is still making a Plane shaped hole in the side of a very strong wall. It is still pointing to murder of innocent people. What is missing from the argument is the evidence to support the notion of criminal intent by person or persons unknown within the US Administration.

I and many others are getting rather bored with the constant 'I have a theory, you must check it to prove it wrong' mentality. Kolb (learnign cycle) would be most unhappy that the Truth Movement is bypassing the process of learning.

If you or 'the truth movement' wish to convince me otherwise then please provide me with evidence. It is not the job of the jury or the person being convinced to validate the argument, it is the person making the argument.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

The US Government won't release all of the evidence - without that, there's only so much that can be done.

yes, theres only so much that can be done, but truthers havent done ANYTHING

have you secured funding sources?

have you named a team/comittee/organization to conduct the investigation?

has aforementioned comittee determined what evidence is missing or withheld?

has aformentioned comittee requested the release of aformentioned missing evidence via FOIA or other official means?



i think youre putting the cart before the horse here, youre sitting around waiting for the government to release evidence, but theres no one for them to release it to

 

[Tolls]

"Type: FDR File"

I don't think so.

Which operating system is this, that recognizes "FDR File" as a distinct file type? What's the corresponding filename extension?

Respectfully,
Myriad

Windows defines a file by its extension, so file.aaa would appear in the Explorer as "AAA File", unless it has been registered as something to do with a bit of software on the system (ie .txt would be "Text File"). So, "FDR File" isn't unusual, it's just a file type that windows doesn't recognise.

 

[JamesB]

That's a silly requirement. It doesn't matter who conducts it, as long as it's a thorough and 100% transparent investigation. Remember, NIST ignored the most puzzling parts of the WTC1/2 collapse (e.g., dust, collapse time, molten steel), and completely ignored WTC7 at first (it remains to be seen if their eventual report will address the partially evaporated steel members).

So basically, they should investigate 9/11 like they would any other murder.

The dust is puzzling? You expect a 110 story building, with hundreds of tons of gypsum wallboard to collapse, and not raise any dust? Bizarre beyond belief.

And NIST did not ignore WTC7, they just gave the twin towers higher priority.

 

[BenBurch]

Deep44, with respect, some of us should be considered the Jury here, in so far as we are your fellow global citizens, without any prejudged ideas. It is you that should try and convince us that your point of view is valid.

Consider Perry Maison standing up in court and instead of letting Paul go off and find out what really happened he tells the jury to get off their chairs and go and investigate...
...it is up to you to convince me that there is more to the current answer than has been told.

Currently I have 'joined the dots' and 'considered the evidence' and it is still making a Plane shaped hole in the side of a very strong wall. It is still pointing to murder of innocent people. What is missing from the argument is the evidence to support the notion of criminal intent by person or persons unknown within the US Administration.

I and many others are getting rather bored with the constant 'I have a theory, you must check it to prove it wrong' mentality. Kolb (learnign cycle) would be most unhappy that the Truth Movement is bypassing the process of learning.

If you or 'the truth movement' wish to convince me otherwise then please provide me with evidence. It is not the job of the jury or the person being convinced to validate the argument, it is the person making the argument.

What he said.

Doubled.

 

[Myriad]

Windows defines a file by its extension, so file.aaa would appear in the Explorer as "AAA File", unless it has been registered as something to do with a bit of software on the system (ie .txt would be "Text File"). So, "FDR File" isn't unusual, it's just a file type that windows doesn't recognise.

To Tolls and all the other people who mentioned this, thanks for the correction. (I use both MacOS and Windows, so I must have been thinking of the Mac where files of unknown type are actually listed as type "unknown".)

I withdraw any accusations I might have made or implied based on the file type (though I don't believe I made any, only pointed out something I mistakenly thought was odd). That leaves only the mysterious now-you-see-it now-you-don't underscore character in the file name, and the relevance of the whole issue to 9/11 conspiracy theories, remaining to be explained.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[theauthor]

yes, theres only so much that can be done, but truthers havent done ANYTHING

have you secured funding sources?

have you named a team/comittee/organization to conduct the investigation?

has aforementioned comittee determined what evidence is missing or withheld?

has aformentioned comittee requested the release of aformentioned missing evidence via FOIA or other official means?



i think youre putting the cart before the horse here, youre sitting around waiting for the government to release evidence, but theres no one for them to release it to

Richard Greene said on Clout that he had spoken to several members of the 911 commission and ALL of them said that the commision didn't have enough money or time to conduct a thorough investigation.

So when will the government be conducting a thorough investigation? Even the 911 commissioners admit it hasn't happened yet.

 

[lapman]

Richard Greene said on Clout that he had spoken to several members of the 911 commission and ALL of them said that the commision didn't have enough money or time to conduct a thorough investigation.

So when will the government be conducting a thorough investigation? Even the 911 commissioners admit it hasn't happened yet.

So, the 9/11 Commission and NIST were the only government entities investigating 9/11? So the FBI and CIA did absolutely nothing. Gotya

 

[theauthor]

Lapman are you claiming that the FBI and CIa was enough and that no general overarching political investigation was required?

 

[The Big Dog]

Lapman are you claiming that the FBI and CIa was enough and that no general overarching political investigation was required?

Wait, wait, wait. You just said that the 911 Commission did not have enough time or money to conduct a "thorough investigation." Hell, I've been there, I did not have enough time or money to rip down my entire house and build a new one, so I had to make do with an addition.

But now you are saying that without unlimited time and money, the 911 Commission was equal to "no investigation"?

Wow. By the way, did you know that those Commission members said that they "succeeded" anyway?

 

[SpitfireIX]

Richard Greene said on Clout that he had spoken to several members of the 911 commission and ALL of them said that the commision didn't have enough money or time to conduct a thorough investigation.

Hearsay. Show us the actual statements those members made. Greene is hardly an unbiased source, and could very well have read what he wanted to read into those statements. Very likely scenario: Commission member says, "we didn't have enough money or time to answer every single question," and Greene equates unanswered questions with the lack of a thorough investigation.

So when will the government be conducting a thorough investigation? Even the 911 commissioners admit it hasn't happened yet.

CBC interview with commission co-chair Lee Hamilton, August 21, 2006:

Hamilton: . . . We had two responsibilities - first, tell the story of 9/11; I think we've done that reasonably well. We worked very hard at it; I don’t know that we’ve told the definitive story of 9/11, but surely anybody in the future who tackles that job will begin with the 9/11 Commission Report. I think we’ve been reasonably successful in telling the story. . . .

[Interviewer:] . . . a Zogby poll done in May, that says now 42% of Americans say that "the U.S. government, and its 9/11 Commission, concealed or refused to investigate critical evidence that contradicts the official explanation of September 11th, saying there's a cover-up" - 42%, Mr. Hamilton - what does that say to you about the efficacy of the Commission's report?

Hamilton: Well, it’s dispiriting, it’s an unusually high number, but if you look at polls judging government reports in the past - the Warren Commission, the reports on Kennedy assassination, even the reports on Abraham Lincoln’s assassination - you find a very high level of people who are skeptical. And you have that in this case.

When you conduct a major investigation, you cannot possibly answer every question, you just do the best you can. But for every question you leave unanswered, you create an opening to a conspiracy theory, and a good many of them have popped up here.

The only thing I ask in the future is that the conspiracy theory people do not apply a double standard. That is to say, they want us to make an airtight case for any assertion we make. On the other hand, when they make an assertion they do it often on very flimsy evidence. . . .

But [conspiracists] are always going to exist in this country. Tom Kean and I got a flavour of this everytime we'd walk through an audience - they would hand us notes, hand us papers, hand us books, hand us tapes, telling us to investigate this, that or the other. You cannot possibly answer all these questions, you just do the best you can. [bolding mine]

I seem to have missed the part where Hamilton says that the commission didn't conduct a thorough investigation, or that a new investigation is needed. Could you please point those out to me, theauthor?

 

[uruk]

You know with all this focus on the file time, did anyone think about the stated time givin by the General? Everybody seems to be comparing a computer date with one given by a human.

" As reported by USA Today, Pentagon spokesman Army Lt. Col. George Rhynedance reported that the FDR for AA 77 was recovered on Friday, September 14, 2001 at 4am, 4 hours and 15 minutes after the creation of the AA 77 FDR data file."

I'm sure the general himself did not personaly recover the FDR. No doubt the time was given to him by an aid or some other source. Did anybody stop to think that the date given by the General was an approximation or an error given to him by an underling?

Do NTSB recovery teams have a stop watch and record exact times objects were recovered? This does not seem like an event that would require an exact time critical measurement.

Does anyone here know how much time it takes to go from crash site recovery to data extraction? Is it a process that would take four hours? More? Less?

Don't you think that the discrepancy is more an issue of a General demanding a time and date that sounds official to deliver to the press and one of his aids pulling an approximation out of his a-- uh, the blue sky?

 

[Jwheelz]

That's a silly requirement. It doesn't matter who conducts it, as long as it's a thorough and 100% transparent investigation. Remember, NIST ignored the most puzzling parts of the WTC1/2 collapse (e.g., dust, collapse time, molten steel), and completely ignored WTC7 at first (it remains to be seen if their eventual report will address the partially evaporated steel members).

So basically, they should investigate 9/11 like they would any other murder.

Could you please describe a previous murder investigation that looked anything like the following ---

In the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, the FBI's response was immediate. In a matter of hours we had deployed to each of the crash sites, ordered dozens of seasoned management personnel back to Washington, and fully staffed a 24/7 operation at our Command Center with up to 500 persons representing approximately 30 federal agencies. At the height of the 9/11 investigation, known as PENTTBOM, the FBI assigned 7,000 agents to assist full-time. The majority were reassigned from other national security and criminal investigative work.

PENTTBOM became the largest and most complex investigation in the history of the FBI. In spite of operating under severe handicaps, the New York Office - relocated to a garage on 26th street, and lacking a proficient infrastructure - began a 24/7 operation utilizing 300 investigators from 37 agencies. The 1-800 toll-free line set up in our Atlanta office received 180,000 calls from a shocked public eager to assist. 225,000 e-mails were received on the FBI's internet site. Evidence response teams from throughout the country were dispatched to New York, Washington and Pittsburgh.

Nationwide we covered over 500,000 investigative leads and conducted over 167,000 interviews. We collected over 7,500 pieces of evidence which were submitted for analysis. Working in conjunction with New York City agencies and authorities, we helped process over 1.8 million tons of debris for investigative leads and victim identification and took more than 45,000 crime scene photographs.
***http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_hr/062503rolince.html***

 

[beachnut]

... no general overarching political investigation was required?

This is why 9/11 truth is so bad at facts; they think this is an opinion based political issue.