Flight 175 plane speed challenged

[Reheat]

You may be correct but there certainly seems to be substantially more on 800 then on 175.

That photo's fake.

 

[ZENSMACK89]

That photo's fake.

Ok. Where's the fake reconstruction of 175?

 

[apathoid]

You may be correct but there certainly seems to be substantially more on 800 then on 175.

[qimg]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/TWA800reconstruction.jpg[/qimg]

But, but, but......they didn't match the serial numbers, therefore the above photo is not evidence of anything!! How do we even know it's a 747?

We need evidence that the hull pictured is from TWA800, got any?

 

[Bell]

Ok. Where's the fake reconstruction of 175?

In a hangar in Area 51. Duh...

 

[Minadin]

Ok. Where's the fake reconstruction of 175?

Why on Earth would they reconstruct 175?

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Why on Earth would they reconstruct 175?

This is a very important point and should not be glossed over. TWA 800 was reconstructed because the cause of the crash was entirely unknown.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

The reason for reconstructing a crashed plane is to find out the point of failure so as to help prevent the same thing from happening to other planes. There is no purpose in doing so on a plane that did not have a mechanical failure.

And this of course is only possible if the plane isn't completely destroyed such as in the event of 9/11. It would be impossible to reconstruct the planes and anyone involved in that would laugh at the prospect of reconstructing such a plane. The Value Jet crash was another example of a plane that was too badly damaged to reconstruct. They did make attempts because the cause of the crash was unknown, but clearly a mechanical failure/problem judging by the radio contact which reported smoke in the cabin.

But the bottom line is that if someone makes the argument that not reconstructing the planes that hit the WTC is proof of foul play prove that they clearly have no understanding what so ever of how these things work.

Zen is clearly grasping at straws as he runs down the list of conspiracy cliches and uses absurd logic to attempt to prove anything is impossible.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Ok. Where's the fake reconstruction of 175?

You can't prove that's flight 800, stop avoiding the subject.

 

[tsig]

I've given up on Zen, he is asking the impossible and he knows it. When someone needs to use their own definition of evidence(I think he may be confusing the term with proof; consult a dictionary Zensmack) in order to proclaim that "you have no evidence"....followed by "you still have no evidence" umpteen more times...it's a safe bet the no amount of evidence will do.

And if I understand him correctly, basically he wants serial numbers of plane parts(airplane DNA), 100% victim ID through DNA(1100 out of 3000+ isn't good enough), and he wants to see the chain of custody for all of the untold number of DNA samples - for starters.

Of course if 100% of the victims had been identified then that would be evidence of CT.

 

[DGM]

Ok. Where's the fake reconstruction of 175?

NWO headquarters, sublevel B right next to my office. Why do you ask?

 

[PhantomWolf]

So this thread so far boils down to this.

Evidence For Flight 175 hitting WTC 2 that Zen Refuses to accept:

Radar Tracking Recording of the plane's path
ATC Testimony
Plane Parts located at GZ
Photos of Plane hitting tower
Film of Plane hitting tower
Phone Calls by Passangers cutting off at impact
Personal Effects of Passangers loacted at GZ
Body Parts and DNA of Passangers and Crew located at GZ

Evidence that Zen has given against Flight 175 hitting WTC 2:

....

 

[defaultdotxbe]

So this thread so far boils down to this.

Evidence For Flight 175 hitting WTC 2 that Zen Refuses to accept:

Radar Tracking Recording of the plane's path
ATC Testimony
Plane Parts located at GZ
Photos of Plane hitting tower
Film of Plane hitting tower
Phone Calls by Passangers cutting off at impact
Personal Effects of Passangers loacted at GZ
Body Parts and DNA of Passangers and Crew located at GZ

Evidence that Zen has given against Flight 175 hitting WTC 2:

....

Evidence that Zen has given against Flight 175 hitting WTC 2:

I think it could have been faked, therefore is was in fact faked

 

[pomeroo]

Zen

You say video evidence is not proof or evidence but many people have been convicted in court by prosecutors using CCTV video evidence

They have also been convicted by DNA evidence

They have also been convicted by the use and movements of their mobile phones

They have also been convicted by eye witness testimony

This proves to you these types of evidence are acceptable

If you still dispute them then you are disputing every person who has ever been convicted using these techniques just because you have not seen the actual evidence or custody chain?

Is this correct?

ZEN is arguing, in case there are a few among us who haven't noticed, that the system of crime detection practiced to varying degrees in every country in the world, the system that evolved from the mid-nineteenth century, through the twentieth, and into the twenty-first, is conceptually flawed.

He is attempting nothing less than to throw into doubt every verdict ever obtained in a criminal proceeding. Improvements in forensic techniques--fingerprinting, to microscopic comparisons of material fibers, to DNA analysis-- affecting every aspect of the methodology of crime detection are dismissed with the wave of a hand.

ZEN is saying that the agencies charged with the task of identifying criminals are themselves criminals. There is a vast, ongoing conspiracy to stand reality on its head. All evidence is faked, to frame the innocent and exonerate the guilty. No evidence is sufficient in ZEN's universe because no evidence can be trusted. If we trip over a fire hydrant, nothing can demonstrate that the hydrant was in that same spot yesterday. It may have been moved three feet overnight by the Vast Conspiracy, for reasons that can't even be guessed at. If you show a photograph of the hydrant in the exact position as when you tripped over it, the photograph has been faked. Someone here correctly identified this particular form of madness as solipsism.

We can chase our tails and, as someone said, give ourselves strokes laying out evidence for a lunatic who waves it all away. Or...

We. Can. Just. Stop.

 

[pomeroo]

The new look at 911myths.com is, IMHO, a great success. Congratulations to Mike on a job well done:

http://www.911myths.com/index.php?title=United_Airlines_Flight_175

 

[T.A.M.]

very Wiki like, and given it is powered by mediawiki, that is no surprise...definitely looking sharp.

TAM

 

[ZENSMACK89]

So this thread so far boils down to this.

Evidence For Flight 175 hitting WTC 2 that Zen Refuses to accept:

Radar Tracking Recording of the plane's path
ATC Testimony
Plane Parts located at GZ
Photos of Plane hitting tower
Film of Plane hitting tower
Phone Calls by Passangers cutting off at impact
Personal Effects of Passangers loacted at GZ
Body Parts and DNA of Passangers and Crew located at GZ

Not evidence of what hit the tower.

Radar Tracking Recording of object said to be 175 but with a different transponder code then 175.
ATC Testimony on what they assumed was 175
Plane Parts located at GZ but no serial number identification offered up.
Photos of a Plane hitting tower
Film of a Plane hitting tower
Phone calls assumed to have come from the object that hit the tower.
Personal Effects of Passengers said to be found at GZ placed in a hanger at an airport.
Body Parts and DNA of 12 people aboard flight 175 said to have been found at GZ.

 

[DGM]

Not evidence of what hit the tower.

Radar Tracking Recording of object said to be 175 but with a different transponder code then 175.
ATC Testimony on what they assumed was 175
Plane Parts located at GZ but no serial number identification offered up.
Photos of a Plane hitting tower
Film of a Plane hitting tower
Phone calls assumed to have come from the object that hit the tower.
Personal Effects of Passengers said to be found at GZ placed in a hanger at an airport.
Body Parts and DNA of 12 people aboard flight 175 said to have been found at GZ.

Any luck backing up your serial number claim? Or are you just trolling?

 

[Mercutio]

Not evidence of what hit the tower.

Radar Tracking Recording of object said to be 175 but with a different transponder code then 175.
ATC Testimony on what they assumed was 175
Plane Parts located at GZ but no serial number identification offered up.
Photos of a Plane hitting tower
Film of a Plane hitting tower
Phone calls assumed to have come from the object that hit the tower.
Personal Effects of Passengers said to be found at GZ placed in a hanger at an airport.
Body Parts and DNA of 12 people aboard flight 175 said to have been found at GZ.

Are any of these incompatible with 175 hitting the tower? (hint: no.) Remember, that is what you need, in order to punch holes in the official story.
Well, that, and answering the questions you have been avoiding about your assertions of how easy it is to dismiss some of the positive evidence for 175.

 

[pomeroo]

Not evidence of what hit the tower.

Radar Tracking Recording of object said to be 175 but with a different transponder code then 175.
ATC Testimony on what they assumed was 175
Plane Parts located at GZ but no serial number identification offered up.
Photos of a Plane hitting tower
Film of a Plane hitting tower
Phone calls assumed to have come from the object that hit the tower.
Personal Effects of Passengers said to be found at GZ placed in a hanger at an airport.
Body Parts and DNA of 12 people aboard flight 175 said to have been found at GZ.

Perhaps I didn't make myself sufficiently clear. This fantasist is not merely saying that no evidence is valid; he claims that no evidence can be valid.

 

[ZENSMACK89]

"In all my years of direct and indirect participation, I never witnessed nor even heard of an aircraft loss, where the wreckage was accessible, that prevented investigators from finding enough hard evidence to positively identify the make, model, and specific registration number of the aircraft -- and in most cases the precise cause of the accident. The government alleges that four wide-body airliners crashed on the morning of September 11 2001, resulting in the deaths of more than 3,000 human beings, yet not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been produced in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft. On the contrary, it seems only that all potential evidence was deliberately kept hidden from public view. - Col. George Nelson, MBA, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Licensed commercial pilot. Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. Graduate, U.S. Air Force War College. 34-year Air Force career. Licensed airframe and powerplant mechanic.

“Flight 175 is the aircraft that's alleged to have hit the South Tower. I don't believe it's possible for, like I said, for a terrorist, a so-called terrorist to train on a [Cessna] 172, then jump in a cockpit of a 757-767 class cockpit, and vertical navigate the aircraft, lateral navigate the aircraft, and fly the airplane at speeds exceeding it's design limit speed by well over 100 knots, make high-speed high-banked turns, exceeding -- pulling probably 5, 6, 7 G's. And the aircraft would literally fall out of the sky. I couldn't do it and I'm absolutely positive they couldn't do it." - Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Retired commercial pilot. Flew for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years. Aircraft flown: Boeing 707, 720, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, and 777. 30,000+ total hours flown. Had previously flown the actual two United Airlines aircraft that were hijacked on 9/11 (Flight 93, which impacted in Pennsylvania, and Flight 175, the second plane to hit the WTC). Former U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions.

“And also in all four planes, if you remember, none of the planes ever switched on their transponder to the hijack code. There's a very, very simple code that you put in if you suspect that your plane is being hijacked. It takes literally just a split-second for you to put your hand down on the center console and flip it over. And not one of the four planes ever transponded a hijack code, which is most, most unusual. ... Commercial airplanes are very, very complex pieces of machines. And they're designed for two pilots up there, not just two amateur pilots, but two qualified commercial pilots up there. And to think that you're going to get an amateur up into the cockpit and fly, much less navigate, it to a designated target, the probability is so low, that it's bordering on impossible." - Commander Ted Muga, BS CE, U.S. Navy (ret) – Retired Pan-Am commercial airline pilot. Aircraft flown: Boeing 707 and 727. Retired Civil Engineer. Retired Naval aviator. Aircraft flown: Grumman E-1 Tracer and E-2 Hawkeye.

It is important for people to understand that scrambling jet fighters to intercept aircraft showing the signs of experiencing "IN-FLIGHT EMERGENCIES" such as going off course without authorization, losing a transponder signal and/or losing radio contact is a common and routine task executed jointly between the FAA and NORAD controllers. The entire "national defense-first responder" intercept system has many highly-trained civilian and military personnel who are committed and well-trained to this task. FAA and NORAD continuously monitor our skies and fighter planes and pilots are on the ready 24/7 to handle these situations. Jet fighters typically intercept any suspect plane over the United States within 10 - 15 minutes of notification of a problem. This type of "immediate, high speed, high priority and emergency" scramble had been happening regularly approximately 75 - 150 times per year for ten years. ...- Robin Hordon – Former Certified Commercial Pilot. Former Certified Flight Instructor and Certified Ground Instructor. Former FAA Air Traffic Controller at the Boston Air Route Traffic Control Center, located in Nashua, NH, 1970 - 1981.