Flight 175 plane speed challenged

[ZENSMACK89]

Three of the four flights on 9/11 were constantly tracked on radar from the moment of hijacking right until the moment they crashed.

What was different about the fourth flight?

-Gumboot

It went into a area that wasn't covered by radar I believe.

 

[NYCEMT86]

Even in the official version only 12 remains were identified and none of the plane parts matched to serial numbers or maintence records.

12 Remains, All of whom were identified as being on Flight 175 correct or did they switch planes mid-flight like in executive order?

For what? The ones who will talk are on the record and none of it proves they knew what they were tracking.

They are better at answering these questions than I am...its just called investigating.

So why didn't they? How did they think flight 77 was a fighter jet? And how many possible hijacked planes were they dealing with that day?

You provided the quote of someone who wasn't tracking Flight 77, he handed it off to another ATCC. I am still waiting for you answer my question...

"Now did the ATC who was tracking Flight 77 at that time think it was a military fighter?"

 

[pomeroo]

That's correct if all you need to do is track an unidentified blip.



It could have at anytime if it wasn't sending out it's own code or was changing codes.



Did I really need to post this again?

"We to this day don't know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us," said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. "It was just so far from the truth. . . . It's one of those loose ends that never got tied."

Thomas Kean regards you conspiracy loons as fools and liars. He's right.

 

[ZENSMACK89]

Three of the four flights on 9/11 were constantly tracked on radar from the moment of hijacking right until the moment they crashed.

What was different about the fourth flight?

-Gumboot

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a900americanheadquarters

9:25 a.m. September 11, 2001: FAA Command Center Finally Tells FAA Headquarters About Flight 77
Edit event

According to the 9/11 Commission, the FAA Command Center advises FAA headquarters that American 77 is lost in Indianapolis flight control’s airspace, that Indianapolis has no primary radar track, and is looking for the aircraft. [9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004] When exactly the Command Center first learned that Flight 77 was lost is unclear.

 

[gumboot]

Based on info from who? For instance who notfies them to tell them which plane might be hijacked?

Well NEADS were told by Boston ARTCC that American Airlines 11 was still airborne and headed for Washington DC, so the points were selected based on that.

As for being told that flights were hijacked, NEADS learned about AA11 and AA77 from Boston ARTCC, learned about UA175 from New York ARTCC, and learned about UA93 from Washington ARTCC.

-Gumboot

 

[Corsair 115]

"If a tree falls in the forest and no one in the group you're currently conversing with actually heard it, then it didn't make a sound!"

I prefer the following paraphrase of an old saying:

"You can lead a truther to a fact but you can't make him believe it."

 

[gumboot]

It went into a area that wasn't covered by radar I believe.

Almost. It was hijacked in an area that did not have primary radar coverage. A flight switch like you described could have been performed for AA77 (although there was really no need to have the new aircraft appear at the point of hijacking).

However the other three flights were hijacked in areas with primary radar coverage. This makes a switch exceedingly difficult. UA175, in particular, was hijacked in airspace while the ATC controller handling the flight had primary radar activated, and was actively searching for a non-squawking primary return. Making such a swap in that instance, without the controller noticing, is an impossibility (putting aside, for the moment, stealth technology).

-Gumboot

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Have we gotten to talking about golf tournaments yet?

 

[ZENSMACK89]

12 Remains, All of whom were identified as being on Flight 175 correct or did they switch planes mid-flight like in executive order?

Never said that. Identifying remains of people who were on 175 isn't identifying what hit the tower. Where were those remains identified and how do you know how they got there or if it's even a valid identification just because they say so?

They are better at answering these questions than I am...its just called investigating.

They can't answer for sure what they were tracking when there were disappearing and changing transponder codes.

You provided the quote of someone who wasn't tracking Flight 77, he handed it off to another ATCC. I am still waiting for you answer my question...

I was told I was a liar and that no one thought flight 77 was a fighter jet at any time. I proved that wrong.

"Now did the ATC who was tracking Flight 77 at that time think it was a military fighter?"

[Source: ABC News]Radar tracks Flight 77 as it closes within 30 miles of Washington. [CBS News, 9/21/2001] Todd Lewis, flight controller at Washington’s Dulles Airport, later recalls, “… my colleagues saw a target moving quite fast from the northwest to the southeast. So she—we all started watching that target, and she notified the supervisor. However, nobody knew that was a commercial flight at the time. Nobody knew that was American 77.… I thought it was a military flight.” [MSNBC, 9/11/2002]

 

[gumboot]

[Source: ABC News]Radar tracks Flight 77 as it closes within 30 miles of Washington. [CBS News, 9/21/2001] Todd Lewis, flight controller at Washington’s Dulles Airport, later recalls, “… my colleagues saw a target moving quite fast from the northwest to the southeast. So she—we all started watching that target, and she notified the supervisor. However, nobody knew that was a commercial flight at the time. Nobody knew that was American 77.… I thought it was a military flight.” [MSNBC, 9/11/2002]

Your quote indicates they thought it was a military flight, not a military fighter.

-Gumboot

 

[pomeroo]

Have we gotten to talking about golf tournaments yet?

You see it, too, Arkan? I asked ZEN if he might be the singular jackass "Malcolm Kirkman." He denied it, but the number of humans on the planet who are this obtuse can't be too large (please say that it can't).

 

[PhantomWolf]

Well NEADS were told by Boston ARTCC that American Airlines 11 was still airborne and headed for Washington DC, so the points were selected based on that.

As for being told that flights were hijacked, NEADS learned about AA11 and AA77 from Boston ARTCC, learned about UA175 from New York ARTCC, and learned about UA93 from Washington ARTCC.

In fact the person that told NORAD all of this posts here as Cheap Shot and has repeatedly explained it and his part in the whole Phantom Flight 11 affair.

 

[gumboot]

In fact the person that told NORAD all of this posts here as Cheap Shot and has repeatedly explained it and his part in the whole Phantom Flight 11 affair.

You ruined my surprise...

-Gumboot

 

[NYCEMT86]

Never said that. Identifying remains of people who were on 175 isn't identifying what hit the tower. Where were those remains identified and how do you know how they got there or if it's even a valid identification just because they say so?

Grasping at straws are we?

They can't answer for sure what they were tracking when there were disappearing and changing transponder codes.

Each Air Traffic Controller is given certain flights on their scope, which I think covers a certain area of air space. They know what flights they have, they know what flights are going to be coming into their scope and leaving, but they know this before it happens. (If I am wrong on any of that, please let me know)

I was told I was a liar and that no one thought flight 77 was a fighter jet at any time. I proved that wrong.

[Source: ABC News]Radar tracks Flight 77 as it closes within 30 miles of Washington. [CBS News, 9/21/2001] Todd Lewis, flight controller at Washington’s Dulles Airport, later recalls, “… my colleagues saw a target moving quite fast from the northwest to the southeast. So she—we all started watching that target, and she notified the supervisor. However, nobody knew that was a commercial flight at the time. Nobody knew that was American 77.… I thought it was a military flight.” [MSNBC, 9/11/2002]

"O'Brien had already handed Flight 77 off to a different air traffic control center."

That different Air Traffic Control Center was Indianapolis Air Traffic Control Center. Who at Indianapolis thought it was a military plane?

 

[ZENSMACK89]

Almost. It was hijacked in an area that did not have primary radar coverage. A flight switch like you described could have been performed for AA77 (although there was really no need to have the new aircraft appear at the point of hijacking).

However the other three flights were hijacked in areas with primary radar coverage. This makes a switch exceedingly difficult. UA175, in particular, was hijacked in airspace while the ATC controller handling the flight had primary radar activated, and was actively searching for a non-squawking primary return. Making such a swap in that instance, without the controller noticing, is an impossibility (putting aside, for the moment, stealth technology).

-Gumboot

Always difficult but not impossible especially on 9/11 with everything that was going on. In fact American wouldn't even confirm for hours that flight 11 was the plane that crashed. United did confirm right away but if American wasn't positive how could United be?

http://complete911timeline.org/time...11_timeline&day_of_9/11=dayOf911&startpos=300

[9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 15-16 pdf file] However, Colin Scoggins, a civilian manager at the FAA’s Boston Center, will later claim that American Airlines refused to confirm that its plane had hit the WTC for several hours afterwards. He will claim this lack of confirmation was a factor in his mistakenly reporting that Flight 11 was still airborne at 9:21 (see 9:21 a.m. September 11, 2001). He says, “When we phoned United [after the second tower was hit], they confirmed that United 175 was down, and I think they confirmed that within two or three minutes.

 

[ZENSMACK89]

Grasping at straws are we?




Each Air Traffic Controller is given certain flights on their scope, which I think covers a certain area of air space. They know what flights they have, they know what flights are going to be coming into their scope and leaving, but they know this before it happens. (If I am wrong on any of that, please let me know)




"O'Brien had already handed Flight 77 off to a different air traffic control center."

That different Air Traffic Control Center was Indianapolis Air Traffic Control Center. Who at Indianapolis thought it was a military plane?

Read all the post NY if you are really interested. I'm repeating myself with you.

 

[ZENSMACK89]

Your quote indicates they thought it was a military flight, not a military fighter.

-Gumboot

OMG
So were they positive what they were tracking? Was it a military flight?

 

[NYCEMT86]

Will you answer my question though


Who at Indianapolis thought it was a military plane?


You keep repeating O'Brien, she worked at Dulles.


O'Brien didn't know it was Flight 77 because he stopped tracking it once she gave it to Indianapolis.

 

[gumboot]

Always difficult but not impossible especially on 9/11 with everything that was going on. In fact American wouldn't even confirm for hours that flight 11 was the plane that crashed. United did confirm right away but if American wasn't positive how could United be?

You need to read more carefully. In the specific instance of UA175, switching flights was impossible. This is because it was being tracked both on primary and secondary radar. Any other aircraft in the same location that had no transponder and then suddenly activated one not matching any flight profile would have immediately been noticed. This is a very simple idea to understand. I can't accept that you don't understand it. Therefore you must be purposefully ignoring it.

American Airlines knew the moment AA11 crashed that it was the aircraft that hit the WTC. It is standard practice in the event of an incident for an airline to go into "lock down" where by all information about the flight is held. This is done primarily to protect the identity of passengers and crew.

American Airlines went into lock down after AA11 crashed. It was several hours before they confirmed to the FAA that AA11 had crashed. However they internally knew it had crashed the moment it hit WTC1.

For whatever reason, United Airlines decided not to go into lock down for UA175, and instead notified the FAA immediately.

-Gumboot

 

[gumboot]

OMG
So were they positive what they were tracking? Was it a military flight?

I've already addressed AA77, only a few posts ago. As you yourself agreed, AA77 was hijacked in an area without primary radar coverage. This meant, unlike with all other flights on 9/11, no one could track AA77 or identify where it was headed.

So when an unknown radar contact appeared on Dulles TRACON's scopes in close vicinity to Washington DC there was no way they could have known it was AA77.

But this thread is not about AA77. It is about UA175. UA175 was not hijacked in an area without primary coverage. It was not lost from radar. It did not suddenly and unexpectedly appear on a radar scope miles and miles from its previous location, headed in the opposite direction.

At no time were the FAA unsure about the identity of the contact they tracked into WTC2.

-Gumboot