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Feinstein hospitalized..again.

Term limits have their own problem. Real world, they tend to make lobbyists and staffers more powerful than the elected officials. Mostly because lobbyists and staffers have the institutional knowledge on how the work actually gets done and on the particular issues.

Also, age is an issue. It wouldn't be if the majority of reps and senators weren't also super ******* old. Half of the Senate is over 65.
 
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Here's the problem in a nutshell:

1. Kamala Harris resigned from her senate seat to become vice president after the 2020 elections.

2. California Governor Gavin Newsom chose Alex Padilla, who is neither Black nor Asian nor female (unlike Harris) to replace her. To quell the uproar over that pick, Newsom pledged to nominate a black female to the Senate in the event he was faced with an opening.

3. Given that Feinstein was obviously not going to be able to run in 2024, several prominent Democrats have announced their intention to run. Only one of those is a Black female, Barbara Lee.

4. If Newsom lives up to his promise he will have to pick a Black woman. And he pretty much can't escape that if he wants to have a chance to run for president.

5. Some rising white stars in the party like Katie Porter and Adam Schiff have also announced their candidacy, and would hate to find themselves up against the only Black woman in the Senate.

Not sure I understand your reasoning here. If Feinstein gets hit by a bus tomorrow, and Governor Newsom were to appoint Barbara Lee to complete her term, there would be absolutely nothing preventing Katie Porter or Adam Schiff from running 2024.

And I doubt that White Democratic candidates have all that many qualms about running against a black opponent in the primaries; they do it all the time. Office seekers gonna seek office. It's not like all those white candidates bowed out in 2020 when Kamala Harris announced her candidacy for President.
 
Not sure I understand your reasoning here. If Feinstein gets hit by a bus tomorrow, and Governor Newsom were to appoint Barbara Lee to complete her term, there would be absolutely nothing preventing Katie Porter or Adam Schiff from running 2024.

And I doubt that White Democratic candidates have all that many qualms about running against a black opponent in the primaries; they do it all the time. Office seekers gonna seek office. It's not like all those white candidates bowed out in 2020 when Kamala Harris announced her candidacy for President.

The root of the conflict is the assumption that anyone temporarily appointed to the seat will enjoy an incumbency boost in what will likely be a hotly contested race.
 
I don't think there should be a limit on age or length of service, but I think once a candidate passes a specific age (say, 70) they should have a cognitive fitness test in the runup to an election so if there is a Man Woman Camera situation they can be replaced before the election.

That way you allow politicians to gain experience, you don't limit anyone specifically by age but you do root out the issue of people stopping mid conversation to stare into space or...whatever plane of reality Feinstein thinks she's on.
 
The root of the conflict is the assumption that anyone temporarily appointed to the seat will enjoy an incumbency boost in what will likely be a hotly contested race.

Still not seeing a problem. Anyone who seriously wants to work in politics should be prepared to run against incumbents from time to time.
 
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Term limits have their own problem. Real world, they tend to make lobbyists and staffers more powerful than the elected officials. Mostly because lobbyists and staffers have the institutional knowledge on how the work actually gets done and on the particular issues.

Also, age is an issue. It wouldn't be if the majority of reps and senators weren't also super ******* old. Half of the Senate is over 65.

Yes, that is a problem, but we can't have a system where our representatives only get a grip on how to do things after having served for two terms.

Clearly, well paid, well staffed offices are the solution, with strict bans on how much time needs to pass before the staffers can become lobbyists and vice versa.
 
I don't think there should be a limit on age or length of service, but I think once a candidate passes a specific age (say, 70) they should have a cognitive fitness test in the runup to an election so if there is a Man Woman Camera situation they can be replaced before the election.

That way you allow politicians to gain experience, you don't limit anyone specifically by age but you do root out the issue of people stopping mid conversation to stare into space or...whatever plane of reality Feinstein thinks she's on.

The campaign itself is the cognitive function test. You're trying to solve a problem that is already solved by just letting people vote, and respecting them as people.
 
California has a Democratic controlled state government and it's safe to assume a reliable D replacement would be selected.

Appointment, sure. But in the election? A lack of an incumbant is a dangerous inflection point, even in California.
 
Appointment, sure. But in the election? A lack of an incumbant is a dangerous inflection point, even in California.

Not really. The last general election was between two Dem candidates. The jungle primary means it's possible that there will be no republican on the ticket at all.
 
Here's the problem in a nutshell:

1. Kamala Harris resigned from her senate seat to become vice president after the 2020 elections.

2. California Governor Gavin Newsom chose Alex Padilla, who is neither Black nor Asian nor female (unlike Harris) to replace her. To quell the uproar over that pick, Newsom pledged to nominate a black female to the Senate in the event he was faced with an opening.

3. Given that Feinstein was obviously not going to be able to run in 2024, several prominent Democrats have announced their intention to run. Only one of those is a Black female, Barbara Lee.

4. If Newsom lives up to his promise he will have to pick a Black woman. And he pretty much can't escape that if he wants to have a chance to run for president.

5. Some rising white stars in the party like Katie Porter and Adam Schiff have also announced their candidacy, and would hate to find themselves up against the only Black woman in the Senate.
Oh the horror... :rolleyes:

So you're annoyed Newsom committed to appointing a black female if Feinstein resigns? Because no black females could possibly be qualified? Rising white stars ... give me a break.

Schiff can run against the replacement that's fine. He has name recognition and he did a great job in the House, he can hold his own in 2024 without being Newsom's replacement if/when Feinstein leaves office early.

Seems like a minor issue for Newsom to appoint a black female as he promised.
 
Not sure I understand your reasoning here. If Feinstein gets hit by a bus tomorrow, and Governor Newsom were to appoint Barbara Lee to complete her term, there would be absolutely nothing preventing Katie Porter or Adam Schiff from running 2024.

And I doubt that White Democratic candidates have all that many qualms about running against a black opponent in the primaries; they do it all the time. Office seekers gonna seek office. It's not like all those white candidates bowed out in 2020 when Kamala Harris announced her candidacy for President.

There's a huge difference between primary-ing the only sitting Black female senator and battling it out with a Black female for an open seat. In general, the party frowns on candidates trying to primary an incumbent.
 
Oh the horror... :rolleyes:

So you're annoyed Newsom committed to appointing a black female if Feinstein resigns? Because no black females could possibly be qualified? Rising white stars ... give me a break.

When did I say no Black females could possibly be qualified or that I was annoyed? That's not the issue here at all. Just pointing out that Newsom painted himself into a corner and is desperate for Feinstein to hang on for another year.

Schiff can run against the replacement that's fine. He has name recognition and he did a great job in the House, he can hold his own in 2024 without being Newsom's replacement if/when Feinstein leaves office early.

Perhaps you could let them both know that they are worrying over nothing. I'm sure they will be greatly relieved.
 
The Founding Fathers never expected people to make a career out of elective office.

I think that's partly true. But the way in which the U.S. government borrows from its predecessor sort of hints at it. The Senate is clearly analogous to the House of Lords, an unelected cadre of elites that nevertheless believed themselves to be born and bred for leadership and held their title and office for life. The six-year term of Senators and their special role in approving the actions of the sovereign—er, um, executive—spell the intent for this body to be the sober, deliberative, born-and-bred branch of government. Ideally we are supposed to elect to the Senate people who might make good lords and ladies in the House of Peers.

Conversely, there was a lot of concern about the damage the unwashed rabble in the House of Representatives could do. Hence the two-year term. Certainly the Representatives were meant to be a more pure republican expression, chosen from rank-and-file Americans. (Here in Utah, our state constitution mandates a lay legislature and limits their sitting to 45 days per year.) The 6- and 2-year terms were the original term limits. Politicians and diapers should be changed frequently, and for the same reason.

Instead of term limits, perhaps a retirement age would work better. Elect that person as many times as you want, until they're too old to be effective. The pressing problem with Feinstein and others is not that they've been repeatedly elected, but that they're no longer capable of performing the duties of the office.

Now you can argue that the practical requirements of modern national government require elected officials with professional commitment. I'd probably agree. You can point out that the U.S. Senate has ceased in its role as a body above the fray. But if the question is whether the Founding Fathers designed the government to require more than lay education, experience, and commitment, I can answer confidently: maybe?
 
There's a huge difference between primary-ing the only sitting Black female senator and battling it out with a Black female for an open seat. In general, the party frowns on candidates trying to primary an incumbent.

Alex Padilla faced opponents in the Democratic primary in 2022, so I'm not sure that's actually true.

ETA: I got around to reading the article you linked, and your characterization of "the party" is bass ackwards from the take home lessons from that article. A lot of "the party" condemned the DCCC's rule as being, well, a DCCC move.
 
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Counterpoints: If the voters don't have a problem with the candidate's age, what's the problem? And the founding fathers certainly left it up to the voters to give someone a career in politics, if they felt so inclined.

Every election is a referendum on whether the incumbent's term should be limited. Why make it any more of a thing than that? Californians are getting exactly the government they voted for. Who are we to say they're doing it wrong? Let California californicate.

In this case it's especially true because California has the "jungle" primary. In Feinstein's most recent election, she was up against another Dem in the general election, so the voters very much had a choice.
 
Oh the horror... :rolleyes:

So you're annoyed Newsom committed to appointing a black female if Feinstein resigns? Because no black females could possibly be qualified? Rising white stars ... give me a break.

Schiff can run against the replacement that's fine. He has name recognition and he did a great job in the House, he can hold his own in 2024 without being Newsom's replacement if/when Feinstein leaves office early.

Seems like a minor issue for Newsom to appoint a black female as he promised.

Especially when you realize that the only real qualification for being a US Senator is reliably voting the party line on any bill that makes it out of committee. Newsom could appoint a coffee barista, and as long as she does what the party whip says, she's qualified.
 

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