Fatal mixup at Costco

Dave Rogers said:
It could be concerning, yes, but I'm struggling to see how it warrants Salvador shooting both parents then shooting the son dead, after the mother has got in between him and the son.

Dave
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Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. If he got hit hard enough to be knocked down, while holding his kid, it would very likely cause some panic.

To me it would change the severity of the charges, maybe. I don't know. I would like to get a better understanding of what it means. He seems to bring it up specifically, and if he's a friend of the family it could be downplayed. There's nothing here that warrants emptying a gun in any way, shape or form.
 
Well its been two weeks and no Costco cctv footage has been released by the authorities, so I will say that the video clearly shows an unjustified shooting.
 
arthwollipot said:
Okay, fair enough. I have a good friend who is a volunteer educator in mental health, and she did a session for the federal police once, and I got the impression it wasn't a common thing.
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Further to this:

Fatal police shooting of mentally ill Taree man prompts calls for better officer training

Questions are being raised about a lack of police training in mental health, after a man with schizophrenia was fatally shot by police after a nine-hour stand-off on the state's Mid North coast.

A critical incident investigation has been launched after Todd McKenzie, 40, was shot five times after negotiations stalled and tactical officers stormed his Taree home, just after 10:00pm last night.

It's the latest in a series of fatal police operations involving mental health cases, including that of 22-year-old Courtney Topic, which last year led to a Coroner recommending a major review of police training.

Greens MP David Shoebridge said the shooting was symptomatic of a continuing lack of training for police in mental health issues.

"This is the latest tragic incident, and it's terribly, brutally predictable," he said.

"The great majority of police have no, or a tiny, amount of training on mental health.

"It's not a core part of the basic training for general duties for police, and they're not adequately equipped for people who are having chronic mental health concerns in the community."
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So what I said was not inaccurate.
 
Some updates:

Case has been handed over to the DA to make charging decisions as of June 28th.

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/06/28/costco-shooting-case-handed-over-to-riverside-da/?_gl=1*hl2hof*_ga*N19GRTNFcm42eS1NNGF1QnVpeFRMSVBaV29yUl9JdWpxNHNqMWJ6UmFKV2tHbVl6aUdsRFVZQUoxelN6d3k0Yw

More recently, a gag order has been placed on releasing the video. The video will be suppressed for 1 year, at the conclusion of the trial, or if charges are not brought. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-08-06/costco-video-deadly-shooting-off-duty-lapd-officer-disability

Gonna go ahead and invoke SuburbanTurkey's law, which states:
If the police have video of a shooting in which they are confident that he officer acted lawfully, the video will be released quickly.

My bet is on this being a bad shoot, and may be egregious enough that a cop actually ends up in the clink over it. But I'm an optimist.
 
Darat said:
I could see the family asking for it to be supressed outside the court.
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"Additionally, the court finds that due to the graphic nature of the video and the significant public attention on the shooting, the release of the video prior to the conclusion of the criminal investigation reasonably could result in harm to the suspect, who is out of custody, and could interfere with the integrity of the jury trial process in any potential subsequent prosecution,” Keen wrote in his decision.
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This is from the appeal that the LA times filed to get the video. CA has explicit record laws that require release of video involving police shootings, barring a gag order for specific reasons, such as interfering with a trial.

While it may be disturbing for the family to see video of their loved one being shot dead, I very much doubt they are in favor of suppressing the video.
 
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The surviving parents made a statement Monday (Aug 26). This has been their first public statement since the shooting.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-08-26/costco-shooting-kenneth-french-family

The parents describe, that after the inciting scuffle, the shooter identified himself as a police officer. The parents claim that they begged the officer not to shoot and tried to explain that their son was mentally handicap. They also claim that the officer was in no danger when he began shooting.

The father was shot in the abdomen and had to have several surgeries, including removing a kidney. The mother was shot in the back and was in a coma, also requiring several surgeries. Both require extensive medical care after their release from the hospital.

The funeral for the son had been postponed until both parents were well enough to attend and is scheduled for Friday.

As of yet, the local DA is still reviewing the case and deciding whether to bring charges against the officer. It is hard to imagine that a person who wasn't a cop would have had such gentle treatment by the justice system given the same facts.

Still no explanation as to why the shooting of both parents weren't criminal acts, regardless of what the son may or may not have done.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
The surviving parents made a statement Monday (Aug 26). This has been their first public statement since the shooting.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-08-26/costco-shooting-kenneth-french-family

The parents describe, that after the inciting scuffle, the shooter identified himself as a police officer. The parents claim that they begged the officer not to shoot and tried to explain that their son was mentally handicap. They also claim that the officer was in no danger when he began shooting.

The father was shot in the abdomen and had to have several surgeries, including removing a kidney. The mother was shot in the back and was in a coma, also requiring several surgeries. Both require extensive medical care after their release from the hospital.

The funeral for the son had been postponed until both parents were well enough to attend and is scheduled for Friday.

As of yet, the local DA is still reviewing the case and deciding whether to bring charges against the officer. It is hard to imagine that a person who wasn't a cop would have had such gentle treatment by the justice system given the same facts.

Still no explanation as to why the shooting of both parents weren't criminal acts, regardless of what the son may or may not have done.
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As we noticed in the other thread, at the very least this was reckless behavior. Once people stood between him and their son the threat was all but neutralized and he proceed to fire a weapon in a crowded store.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
As of yet, the local DA is still reviewing the case and deciding whether to bring charges against the officer. It is hard to imagine that a person who wasn't a cop would have had such gentle treatment by the justice system given the same facts.

Still no explanation as to why the shooting of both parents weren't criminal acts, regardless of what the son may or may not have done.
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plague311 said:
As we noticed in the other thread, at the very least this was reckless behavior. Once people stood between him and their son the threat was all but neutralized and he proceed to fire a weapon in a crowded store.
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Yeah, only a police officer could possibly get such treatment. Why haven't the prosecutors decided yet?

Conceivably shooting the son could be justified on self-defense grounds, but not the parents.
 
No charges filed against the cop:

Riverside County prosecutors on Wednesday announced they would not file criminal charges against an off-duty Los Angeles police officer who fatally shot an intellectually disabled man in June during an altercation in a Costco store in Corona.

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“It was out of the blue and unexpected. The officer was hit in the back of the head while holding a child in his hands,” Hestrin said.

Hestrin played a portion of a low-quality Costco surveillance video, but it was grainy and hard to decipher what was happening. The footage shows French, wearing a striped shirt, being pulled away by a family member, wearing a dark-colored shirt. The two men fall to the ground. A woman is seen approaching the two men on the ground. Sanchez is barely seen in the far-left frame of the video.
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plague311 said:
I'm hoping they release the footage, but apparently it's tough to see.
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Video of the press release, including a clip of the grainy costco footage, is available here.

https://abc7.com/no-charges-against-lapd-officer-in-fatal-shooting-at-corona-costco/5568046/

It is not very useful. As far as I can tell, the beginning moments of the scuffle occur off camera and they only come into view at the very end. The parents are not visible in the struggle and are not in frame. I am assuming they were struck by stray rounds, which would be a crime for anyone but a cop.

What a hero cop, gets in a little roughed up and guns down an unarmed man in a crowded place, wounding two others. They should give him a medal.
 
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Daily Mail said:
A grand jury declined to bring charges against an off-duty Los Angeles police officer who fatally shot a mentally ill man who assaulted him in a California Costco warehouse, authorities said Wednesday. Officer Salvador Sanchez, a seven-year veteran of the LAPD, opened fire on June 14 in Corona, fatally shooting Kenneth French and injuring his parents, Russell and Paola French.

Riverside County District Attorney Mike Hestrin said the results of the investigation were presented to a grand jury this month, and the panel declined to return charges.

'One of the pieces of information that I think was uncontroverted was that the off-duty officer was struck by Kenneth French - struck in the head - and he went down as he was holding his infant child,' Hestrin told a news conference. 'And it all happened very fast, about less than four seconds from the moment that he (French) struck to the moment that he (Sanchez) fired.'

The officer believed he had been shot and that there was an active shooter, Hestrin said, citing witnesses who saw him reach to the back of his head multiple times to look for blood. He added: 'The officer after being struck, thought he had been shot and believed there was an active shooter in front of him.'...

Corona Police Chief George Johnstone said Wednesday: 'Salvador Sanchez was shopping at Costco with his family when he was assaulted by Kenneth French.

'Sanchez was holding his young child at the time of this assault. Sanchez fired his firearm striking Kenneth and both of Kenneth's parents.' Joe DelGiudice, chief of the Bureau of Investigation for the DA’s office, said: 'There was approximately 3.8 seconds between when Mr. Sanchez was struck and the first round was fired.'...
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...y-plans-update-California-store-shooting.html
 
The story of Sanchez believing there was an active shooter situation seems completely new, and does not seem to fit with previous statements where sanchez identified who had hit him. The speed that it occurred also seems odd, for the story of his belief in an active shooter since he did not seem to have tried to identify an active shooter.

My guess is that the prosecutor presented the case for murder to the grand jury, which this may not meet the legal definition of, I wonder whether alternative crimes e.g. negligent homicide were an option?

The secrecy of grand jury hearings and the lack of representation by the victim leads to a feeling of a 'fix'. In the UK isn a similar situation, even when the prosecutor has decided that there will be no charge against a police officer in a fatal shooting there will be a coroner's court case, with a jury. The facts around the shooting will be reviewed and the family can present their views and cross examine witnesses. the jury can return a range of verdicts (including narrative verdicts) e.g. justifiable homicide, or disagree with prosecutor and return a verdict of murder. The coroner's court is not a criminal court and the verdict is on a balance of probability not BARD as in a criminal case. The prosecutor is not required to change their mind on prosecution, but it would be difficult for them not to at least review the decision not to prosecute if the coroner's court returned a verdict of negligence or murder.

I suspect this was very similar to a road rage crime, someone else's bad behaviour provokes an irrational rage that can lead to a potentially fatal response. I note that all three victims were shot in the back, it is hard to see there would have been a real perceived threat at the time Sanchez opened fire.
 
Planigale said:
I suspect this was very similar to a road rage crime, someone else's bad behaviour provokes an irrational rage that can lead to a potentially fatal response. I note that all three victims were shot in the back, it is hard to see there would have been a real perceived threat at the time Sanchez opened fire.
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Yes. Spraying 10 bullets four seconds after being knocked over seems insane to me since there were no weapons to be seen anywhere.

This is a situation where a cop was given a monstrous benefit of doubt that would never be available to a civilian. If he was not identified as a police officer to the grand jury, there would almost certainly have been charges.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Video of the press release, including a clip of the grainy costco footage, is available here.

https://abc7.com/no-charges-against-lapd-officer-in-fatal-shooting-at-corona-costco/5568046/

It is not very useful. As far as I can tell, the beginning moments of the scuffle occur off camera and they only come into view at the very end. The parents are not visible in the struggle and are not in frame. I am assuming they were struck by stray rounds, which would be a crime for anyone but a cop.
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According to news sources, it's the other way around - the two men in frame are French (the "assailant") and his father, and it is actually the off-duty cop who shot him that just barely visible at the leftmost edge of the frame.

Eta: what IS clear from the grainy footage is that French's father (in the dark shirt) is shot and falls first, before French himself.
 
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Checkmite said:
According to news sources, it's the other way around - the two men in frame are French (the "assailant") and his father, and it is actually the off-duty cop who shot him that just barely visible at the leftmost edge of the frame.
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So French was shot while his father was actively attempting to restrain him, some of the rounds hit the very man attempting to help the cop, and that's not indictable.

Jesus.
 
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