Fatal mixup at Costco

casebro said:
A blow to the head can cause a psychosis: Inability to distinguish thoughts from reality. He THOUGHT he was being attacked by the people who were helping him up? And defending yourself, or ypur kid, even from unreasonable fear, is legal.
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I'm not sure about that highlighted bit.

There's probably some kind of "reasonable person standard".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defense_(United_States)

In the U.S., the general rule is that "[a] person is privileged to use such force as reasonably appears necessary to defend him or herself against an apparent threat of unlawful and immediate violence from another."[1] In cases involving non-deadly force, this means that the person must reasonably believe that their use of force was necessary to prevent imminent, unlawful physical harm.[2] When the use of deadly force is involved in a self-defense claim, the person must also reasonably believe that their use of deadly force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's infliction of great bodily harm or death.[3
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(Emphasis in original)
In some jurisdictions, there is an imperfect self-defense rule, where an individual who mistakenly believes that he was justified in using deadly force in self-defense, but is not legally justified, may have a murder conviction reduced to a manslaughter conviction instead.[10]
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So not just any old belief, the general rule is that it must be a "reasonable" belief that the use of force was necessary to prevent imminent, unlawful physical harm. Perhaps the "imperfect self-defense rule" would possibly apply in this case. But that doesn't get you off the hook entirely, because he would still be guilty of manslaughter.

https://www.shouselaw.com/california/murder/imperfect-self-defense.html
 
Trebuchet said:
Oh, that explains it!

They're trained to do that. Seriously, once they start firing they empty the mag.
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I don't think that's true. The traditional training is a "double tap," two shots at the threat, then stop and assess. Emptying the magazine is a pure panic reaction. It certainly happens, but it shouldn't.
 
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William Parcher said:
Maybe it wasn't a push knocking him down and instead was a fierce sucker punch causing unconsciousness before he hit the floor.
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Maybe he thought he was in his apartment and that he was being home invaded.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Trebuchet said:
They're trained to do that. Seriously, once they start firing they empty the mag.
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And what do they do when the perp's buddy comes round the corner?

Sounds to me like a very good way to get yourself killed.
 
I would have thought a cop would be used to dealing with people with personality disorders. Arguing with someone like that is usually not going to work rationally and you better of just letting them be, even if they pushed in front of you in the teriaki tasting queue.
 
a_unique_person said:
I would have thought a cop would be used to dealing with people with personality disorders.
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In the US, police "dealing with people with personality disorders" typically means one of two things: 1) shooting them as quickly as possible and then claiming self-defense, or 2) giving them a badge and gun.
 
luchog said:
In the US, police "dealing with people with personality disorders" typically means one of two things: 1) shooting them as quickly as possible and then claiming self-defense, or 2) giving them a badge and gun.
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Nommed.
 
a_unique_person said:
I would have thought a cop would be used to dealing with people with personality disorders. Arguing with someone like that is usually not going to work rationally and you better of just letting them be, even if they pushed in front of you in the teriaki tasting queue.
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It might be different in the US, but I know police here are generally not given specific training on how to treat people with mental illness.
 
arthwollipot said:
It might be different in the US, but I know police here are generally not given specific training on how to treat people with mental illness.
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Just done a very quick search and you are wrong. At least one police force has specific training for operational officers, including how to work with patients in hospitals and clinics.
 
Darat said:
Just done a very quick search and you are wrong. At least one police force has specific training for operational officers, including how to work with patients in hospitals and clinics.
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Okay, fair enough. I have a good friend who is a volunteer educator in mental health, and she did a session for the federal police once, and I got the impression it wasn't a common thing.
 
I have bounced this story because I am interested in what is happening. I have heard nothing more, is there any update? How are the parents doing? If they were discharged from hospital I thought there would be an update, if they are still in hospital it suggests they have problems.
 
Planigale said:
I have bounced this story because I am interested in what is happening. I have heard nothing more, is there any update? How are the parents doing? If they were discharged from hospital I thought there would be an update, if they are still in hospital it suggests they have problems.
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There's not much new developments, but here is a more recent news story:

Family Of Man Fatally Shot In Corona Costco Still Looking For Answers (July 22, 2019, CBS 9, Los Angeles)

A family member told CBSLA’s Nicole Comstock that employees of the Costco have seen the security footage of the incident, and have told the family the video shows almost everything that happened June 14. Employees initially talked with CBSLA the night of the shooting, but the family alleges the company has made those who were there sign non-disclosure agreements effectively silencing them.

French’s family said they have been instructed not to speak on camera about the case, but one family member agreed to talk on the phone. He told CBSLA that the family does not dispute that French started the physical encounter by pushing or slapping Salvador. But the family member said witnesses told him that French’s mother Paola was shot first, in the back while standing between her mentally ill son and the officer. The family member said French’s father Russel was shot next while screaming, “Don’t shoot. My son is sick.”

Both are still under treatment for severe injuries.
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But the family member said witnesses told him that French’s mother Paola was shot first, in the back while standing between her mentally ill son and the officer.
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Extremely important if true. If the shopper with the gun opened fire while an innocent person was standing between his gun and the "threat", his decision seems a lot harder to justify.
 
Still no explanation offered at all why the cop's shooting of the mother and father weren't criminal acts.
 
What the hell? He slapped him? I'd like that defined. I'm not condoning what the cops actions were, but if that "slap" was more of a closed fist type of thing. That could be concerning, depending on how hard he was hit.
 
plague311 said:
What the hell? He slapped him? I'd like that defined. I'm not condoning what the cops actions were, but if that "slap" was more of a closed fist type of thing. That could be concerning, depending on how hard he was hit.
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It could be concerning, yes, but I'm struggling to see how it warrants Salvador shooting both parents then shooting the son dead, after the mother has got in between him and the son.

Dave
 
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