RandFan said:
What is the point to your post? You make these claims and then say you don't know. Why did you bother in the first place.
My first post was prompted by a claim that the obese were “disabled.” I stated that there is no clear evidence that the condition can be explained by medical factors alone (as contrasted with lifestyle choices and societal conditions) and therefore should not be termed a disability in the classic sense of the term. At one end of the spectrum, there is someone who is fat due solely to the fact that they are fantastically lazy and don't care, and at the other end, there is someone who leads a fastidiously healthy lifestyle but suffers from a medical condition that has left them obese. In between, the majority consist of a mixture of the two. I claimed that I was not an expert in the field, but I stated my opinion based on what I do know. Are people allowed to have opinions, or is questioning what you consider gospel taboo? I never discounted any of the medical findings that anyone raised, but instead noted things like the rise in obesity corresponds to the rise in sedentary lifestyles and high-fat foods – things that genetic causes do not fully explain. I don’t believe I stated anything more than should be intuitive to most reasonably knowledgeable people.
RandFan said:
This is great if you will apply it consistently. If you do it makes your original statement moot.
Um, I was applying your own capricious standards to your own statements to show the flaws in your analysis. Guess you missed that subtle tactic, quotations and all.
RandFan said:
Brain scans show that obese people, just like drug addicts, have fewer receptors for dopamine, a neurotransmitter that helps produce feelings of satisfaction and pleasure.
Can behavior alter brain scans when people perform routines they like (like say, play golf)? If you have fewer receptors for dopamine, does that mean that you will be either obese or a drug addict? If not, why not? Also, you state that you don’t consider obesity a disability, but you’re comparing obesity to drug addiction. Is drug addiction a disease/disability?
You felt compelled to highlight the following:
At present, we know that there are many factors that contribute to obesity, some of which have a genetic component.
Do you think I’m arguing with that quote, especially after I stated “In no way am I disparaging those who have legitimate health issues because of obesity caused by medical conditions”? No. I’m merely pointing out that since
“some” of the factors that contribute to obesity are genetic, then
“some” of the factors are also linked to lifestyle. Do you dispute this point?
RandFan said:
How much science would you like?
Post all the medical causes for obesity you like. There is plenty of science that shows that the obese tend to be less active, more sedentary, and eat more. Maybe all of those actions are medically based too (perhaps being an a$$hole will be found to be a medical condition). Assuming genetic predisposition for obesity is static throughout the world, genetics cannot explain why the United States is leading the world in fat. Period. Want some science? Here’s what the WHO says on the subject:
The rising (obesity) epidemic reflects the profound changes in society and in behavioral patterns of communities over recent decades. While genes are important in determining a person's susceptibility to weight gain, energy balance is determined by calorie intake and physical activity. Thus societal changes and worldwide nutrition transition are driving the obesity epidemic.
Economic growth, modernization, urbanization and globalization of food markets are just some of the forces thought to underlie the epidemic. As incomes rise and populations become more urban, diets high in complex carbohydrates give way to more varied diets with a higher proportion of fats, saturated fats and sugars. At the same time, large shifts towards less physically demanding work have been observed worldwide. Moves towards less physical activity are also found in the increasing use of automated transport, technology in the home, and more passive leisure pursuits.
Your citation stated the following:
Certain genetic populations, such as the American Indians of the Southwest, have a very high incidence of severe obesity.
But, according to the American Obesity Association:
Ethnic groups in many industrialized countries appear to be affected by obesity as a result of modernization and urbanization. Genetic predisposition for obesity is suggested to be a factor that only becomes apparent after exposure to a more Western lifestyle.
Here's what else they had to say:
The American Obesity Association:
Environmental and behavioral changes brought about by economic development, modernization, and urbanization have been linked to the rise in global obesity. Developed countries have high obesity rates, food deprivation is unusual, and physical activity levels have decreased greatly. Lower income households are reported to feature diets composed of foods that tend to be high in calories and fat - contributors to overweight and obesity - since vegetables, fruits and whole grain cereals are more expensive.
* Developing countries have lower obesity rates… people who live in these areas are limited in their ability to provide enough food, have little access to public transportation and engage in moderate to heavy manual labor.
* Obesity is relatively uncommon in African and Asian developing countries, although when present, it is more prevalent in urban than in rural populations (in the U.S., almost 50% of African American women are obese).
* Many South-East Asian countries are presently undergoing a "nutrition transition" involving a shift in the structure of diet, decreased physical activity and rapid increases in the prevalence of obesity.
* Modernization, the growth of industry and technology, was introduced over 50 years ago in the Western world. Modernization has led to an abundance of food (particularly high caloric intake) and a decrease in overall physical activity, contributing to increased rates of obesity.
* Urbanization and population growth in large cities is associated with changes in diet (more reliance on non-traditional foods) and a more sedentary lifestyle
* Obesity rates have risen threefold or even more in some parts of North America, Eastern Europe, the Middle East, the Pacific Islands, Australasia and China since 1980. Changes in food processing and production and in agricultural and trade policies have affected the daily diet of hundreds of millions of people.
* The number of women entering the job market has increased with economic development, and contributed to an increased dependence on convenience foods and the use of labor saving devices such as microwaves.
Does any of this contradict my comments on this issue from above?
), since an accident i cannot lead the life i once did as such my weight is plus half a stone (not bad really i still swim) but i eat the right foods and still have semi decent muscle size but for the flak i get off my doctor you'd think i'd spent my life not moving and being fed lard
