Fat Logic

[casebro]

Good thing intent isn't magic, then, or I might take yours personally, and decide I don't owe you any followup at all.

As it is, I'm merely waiting for your answer to my follow-up questions.

Pressy, re-read my post. #171. I was asking Buddah.

 

[rustypouch]

Why is that an uniformed argument..

Are you denying that reduced caloric intake and/or exercise that results in a caloric deficit is the only way to experience weight loss?

How difficult the process may be, depending on the individual, is determined by any number of factors, but the bottom line of CICO remains..

That's about it. The concept is simple. Being able to do it can be very tricky. But it is possible.

 

[Modified]

While. I have no idea what happened afterward but I can guess. The point was to refer to one of many complications (hedonic factor).

I would hope they didn't just compare bland to flavorful, but also moderately flavored to highly flavored, as the second comparison is more relevant to real life. People may be willing to avoid buying highly flavored foods, but I doubt they will fill their homes with only bland ones.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Sure, as long as I'm conscious. Some people can't hold out to the point of unconsciousness, but many can, especially if they hyperventilate first.

Got any evidence because I think that's a myth. Everyone sucks in a breath before they go unconscious. If anyone can actually hold their breath until they are unconscious they have to be an extremely rare breed.

The drive to breathe will almost certainly override any conscious attempt to not breathe.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Why is that an uniformed argument..

Are you denying that reduced caloric intake and/or exercise that results in a caloric deficit is the only way to experience weight loss?

How difficult the process may be, depending on the individual, is determined by any number of factors, but the bottom line of CICO remains..

Everyone could be rich if they just earned more money, right? The fact remains it's all about getting more money in than is going out.

Is that semantic argument useful to dwell on?

 

[marplots]

Everyone could be rich if they just earned more money, right? The fact remains it's all about getting more money in than is going out.

Is that semantic argument useful to dwell on?

That's certainly true. As well as the converse - no one gets rich by not gaining more money. Just as no one gets fat by not eating too many calories.

Perhaps the confusion comes in because "too many" is relative to the individual, just as the "excess" in "earning excess money will make you rich" may be a different number for each of us.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Perhaps the confusion comes from people not recognizing useless in a discussion.

Is it useful to point out if you just earned enough money you could be rich?

 

[rustypouch]

Everyone could be rich if they just earned more money, right? The fact remains it's all about getting more money in than is going out.

Is that semantic argument useful to dwell on?

I still don't understand why you seem to think that moderation and and self control are essentially unattainable feats.

 

[marplots]

Perhaps the confusion comes from people not recognizing useless in a discussion.

Is it useful to point out if you just earned enough money you could be rich?

You should ask the poster who brought it up:

Everyone could be rich if they just earned more money, right?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I still don't understand why you seem to think that moderation and and self control are essentially unattainable feats.

Like a lot of controversial subjects, there are dog whistles and there is legitimate discussion. Fat people lack will power is a dog whistle, not a discussion.

A discussion would be about how one addresses the fact the drive to eat is a real biological drive. A useless discussion is about how it boils down to will power and calorie math.

 

[Modified]

Got any evidence because I think that's a myth. Everyone sucks in a breath before they go unconscious. If anyone can actually hold their breath until they are unconscious they have to be an extremely rare breed.

The drive to breathe will almost certainly override any conscious attempt to not breathe.

I do a lot of underwater swimming, so I may have built up some ability. I've never actually gone unconscious, but I assume that when your field of vision starts to narrow, you are close. With a normal breath before starting, I will get uncontrollable diaphragm contractions at about half the time to that happening. But those contractions don't force you to breathe, you can just sort of breathe "internally" by moving the air into and out of your cheeks. With one minute of hyperventilating first, the contractions start more like 3/4 of the way to narrowing of vision, the total time is somewhat longer, and the whole thing is much easier (you'll be uncomfortable after hyperventilating for ten seconds or so, then slightly euphoric for about a minute). Not that I do that regularly (hyperventilate or stay under too long), but now and then I like to test my limits, and I have gone on too long three or four times.

 

[rustypouch]

Like a lot of controversial subjects, there are dog whistles and there is legitimate discussion. Fat people lack will power is a dog whistle, not a discussion.

A discussion would be about how one addresses the fact the drive to eat is a real biological drive. A useless discussion is about how it boils down to will power and calorie math.

How is dealing urges for short term satisfaction, putting them off for a later benefit, not a matter of will power?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Everyone could be rich if they just earned more money, right? The fact remains it's all about getting more money in than is going out.

Is that semantic argument useful to dwell on?

Yes, Everyone could be rich if they just earned more money. ( Than they spend... )

I'm not sure where semantics come into play in the question I asked you..


Are you denying that reduced caloric intake and/or exercise that results in a caloric deficit is the only way to experience weight loss?

Fat people lack will power is a dog whistle, not a discussion.

Who in this thread has made that claim?

 

[thaiboxerken]

How is dealing urges for short term satisfaction, putting them off for a later benefit, not a matter of will power?

Correct. Also, seeking help is also a matter of will power.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

That's certainly true. As well as the converse - no one gets rich by not gaining more money. Just as no one gets fat by not eating too many calories.

I was going to bring up the similarities between overeating and overspending, as I have a friend who makes about $120K/year and cannot afford a car. He's single with no kids and always broke because he's a compulsive spender and buried in credit card debt. He spends foolishly, taking taxis everywhere (even though there's a great public transportation system), eating out at expensive restaurants, buying things he never even uses, etc. A pretty good portion of his income goes to late fees, interest on loans, etc.

The solution to his problems is to spend less of his money. Easy to see what the solution is, but he's having a tough time implementing it. Sound familiar? They're both cases of overconsumption, both have simple solutions (although not easy, as the prestige has pointed out), and there is a huge industry of people making $$ tying to help both groups with miracle diets and get rich schemes.

 

[casebro]

Got any evidence because I think that's a myth. Everyone sucks in a breath before they go unconscious. If anyone can actually hold their breath until they are unconscious they have to be an extremely rare breed.

The drive to breathe will almost certainly override any conscious attempt to not breathe.

The drive to breath is what drowns us.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I've never actually gone unconscious.

Which supports my point.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The drive to breath is what drowns us.

Wouldn't matter whether or not you suck water into your lungs, no air is no air.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

No. The intent of my question was are you practicing what you're preaching, or lecturing from a high horse of natural slimness. How much weight has your logic lost FOR YOU? Or is it all horse **** and gun smoke as an intellectual exercise?

I already gave you an answer in #132. If you prefer to ad hom and not read anything I post that is fine with me. There is no evidence of such a thing as "natural slimness". And in any event discussing scientific fact is never horse **** and gun smoke.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Anyway... Yes, it's important to take in fewer calories than you burn if you want to lose weight. Yes, exercise burns calories. But not all calories are created equal. Not all of them process the same.

It's long, but it's worth a read:
What If It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?

False. Taubes is a crank.

But the irony of that statement in this thread is funny.