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False Memory Syndrome

Lucianarchy said:
JENNIFER A. HOULT *snipped, another case story*
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Lucianarchy, you cannot prove a negative. So you cannot prove that FMS does not exist, and no true skeptic can ask you to.

So, can we prove that FMS exists ? -- Well, Alien abductions were already mentioned, and you acknowledged that those were false memories (you called it something else, but, you acknowledged that they are not real, thus they are false).

QED: False memories exist.

Always nice to do business with you!

Hans
 
Luci - Some self-proclaimed skeptics of recovered memory claim that traumatic childhood events simply cannot be forgotten at the time only to be remembered later in life.
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This is not what we are saying, and I think you know it. I don't think anyone is denying that it is possible for someone to block out a memory, and possibly recover it later. We are simply stating that just because someone thinks they have recovered a blocked memory, that doesn't mean that memory is true. It is well within the means of the human mind to deceive itself. Be it imaginary memories of abuse, or in your case imaginary psychic powers. The mind is fallible. This is what you are denying. Get your story straight.
 
Lucianarchy said:
That's because you're lying about what you disengenously claim I 'desire'. Don't let bitterness get the better of you.
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I'm not the one trying to dehumanise my opponents in order to make themselves feel better about their belief system. You are not doing anything to help abused children by posting this thread. Please go here if you genuinely wish to help:

http://www.childline.org.uk/

Peace.
 
Operaider said:
This is not what we are saying, and I think you know it. I don't think anyone is denying that it is possible for someone to block out a memory, and possibly recover it later. We are simply stating that just because someone thinks they have recovered a blocked memory, that doesn't mean that memory is true. It is well within the means of the human mind to deceive itself. Be it imaginary memories of abuse, or in your case imaginary psychic powers. The mind is fallible. This is what you are denying. Get your story straight.
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Get yours straight.

The is no FM syndrome. The syndrome does not exist. It never did. It didn't even get a chance to shuffle off this mortal coil.

Using the term 'syndrome' as a medical / scientific term in the case of recovered memories and abuse claims is not only bogus quackery at its worst, it is giving pedophiles something to hide behind and victims something to be stigmatised with, and that, is very dangerous.

I think it is shamefull that Randi has put his name to this vile nonsense and it is really doing skepticism a great disservice.
 
Lucianarchy said:
Get yours straight.

The is no FM syndrome. The syndrome does not exist. It never did. It didn't even get a chance to shuffle off this mortal coil.

Using the term 'syndrome' as a medical / scientific term in the case of recovered memories and abuse claims is not only bogus quackery at its worst, it is giving pedophiles something to hide behind and victims something to be stigmatised with, and that, is very dangerous.

I think it is shamefull that Randi has put his name to this vile nonsense and it is really doing skepticism a great disservice.
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(1) So are you saying that every single case of recovered memory is accurate.

(2) If some are not what it the term for someone who has (to them) a real memory of an event that did not happen ?
 
I would say that the syndrome certainly does exist, shown by Luci's insistence that the random word "Ladybrooke" actually had some significance.
 
What's most telling is Lucianarchy's campaign to re-label skepticism to mean "denial of naturalistic explanations as a priori confabulations"

False memory syndrome has been noted and recognised many times. For this reason alone, eye-witness testimony in and of itself is not sufficient grounds to convict of a crime. To suggest that false memories cannot be confabulated is go against the experiences of practically all of us, since we all at one time or another experienced phenomena or remembered past experiences which did not exist.

To suggest that also, that false memory syndrome is a cover-up for all child abuse is a wicked assertion by a dedicated evil mind. Like Lucianarchy's for example.
 
Diamond said:
What's most telling is Lucianarchy's campaign to re-label skepticism to mean "denial of naturalistic explanations as a priori confabulations"

False memory syndrome has been noted and recognised many times. For this reason alone, eye-witness testimony in and of itself is not sufficient grounds to convict of a crime. To suggest that false memories cannot be confabulated is go against the experiences of practically all of us, since we all at one time or another experienced phenomena or remembered past experiences which did not exist.

To suggest that also, that false memory syndrome is a cover-up for all child abuse is a wicked assertion by a dedicated evil mind. Like Lucianarchy's for example.
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Tickle, tickle, tickle...it'll come to me.
 
Lucianarchy said:
Get yours straight.

The is no FM syndrome. The syndrome does not exist. It never did. It didn't even get a chance to shuffle off this mortal coil.

Using the term 'syndrome' as a medical / scientific term in the case of recovered memories and abuse claims is not only bogus quackery at its worst, it is giving pedophiles something to hide behind and victims something to be stigmatised with, and that, is very dangerous.

I think it is shamefull that Randi has put his name to this vile nonsense and it is really doing skepticism a great disservice.
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OK, Luci - I'll take you at face value and treat this as if you are sincere.

I think that your middle paragraph above goes to the crux of what you are trying to say -

" Using the term 'syndrome' as a medical / scientific term in the case of recovered memories and abuse claims is not only bogus quackery at its worst, ...."

I take it that you don't mean to say that individual memories cannot be false but that there is no "syndrome" as the FMSF claim is present in some recovered memory cases.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

To expand on that, let's take a look at how the FMSF define "False Memory Syndrome" - from the FAQs in their site -
Dr. John F. Kihlstrom, professor of psychology at the University of California in San Francisco, has suggested the following definition:
[A] condition in which a person's identity and interpersonal relationships are centered around a memory of traumatic experience which is objectively false but in which the person strongly believes. Note that the syndrome is not characterized by false memories as such. We all have memories that are inaccurate. Rather, the syndrome may be diagnosed when the memory is so deeply ingrained that it orients the individual's entire personality and lifestyle, in turn disrupting all sorts of other adaptive behavior. The analogy to personality disorder is intentional. False Memory Syndrome is especially destructive because the person assiduously avoids confrontation with any evidence that might challenge the memory. Thus it takes on a life of its own, encapsulated and resistant to correction. The person may become so focused on memory that he or she may be effectively distracted from coping with the real problems in his or her life.
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What is it about that definition that you find to be "bogus quackery"?

As to the second part of your sentence -

" ...it is giving pedophiles something to hide behind and victims something to be stigmatised with, and that, is very dangerous."

Congratulations! You can now add Appeal to Consequences to your ever-growing collection of logical fallacies. Are you working your way through the list?


Edited to add link
 
I think we may be arguing semantics.

If, by "syndrome" we mean a medical condition with a clearly understood etiology, then I agree with luci; there is no such syndrome.

Likewise, alcoholics are just folk who drink too much.

Kleptomaniacs are thieves, cut & dried. Send 'em to jail.

Just excuses for people with no self discipline.

And people who talk nonsense would just be...stupid?

Define it how you like. People remember things wrongly, forget them entirely and imagine stuff that never happened.

Now , Lucianarchy, do you accept that or not?
 
Lucianarchy said:
Get yours straight.

The is no FM syndrome. The syndrome does not exist. It never did. It didn't even get a chance to shuffle off this mortal coil.

Using the term 'syndrome' as a medical / scientific term in the case of recovered memories and abuse claims is not only bogus quackery at its worst, it is giving pedophiles something to hide behind and victims something to be stigmatised with, and that, is very dangerous.

I think it is shamefull that Randi has put his name to this vile nonsense and it is really doing skepticism a great disservice.
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By posting this, were you trying to prove my point by...
  • repeating "There is no FMS" ad naseum without sufficient supporting evidence
  • Trying to associate any one opposed to your view with pedophiles
  • Showing your hatered for Randi by trying to slander him in any way possible
  • All of the above
    [/list=a]
 
Lucianarchy said:
There is no syndrome. It looks like pedo's use it to hide behind, that's all, and I think Randi is doing a disservice to skepticism by supporting it.
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And any innocent people falsley accused can just have their lives destroyed?

Charming.
 
Lucianarchy said:
The point is, THERE IS NO FMS. It is plainly QUACK diagnosis, the syndrome does not exist. Read the references and studies above.
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Explain Richard Ofshe and the Paul Ingram case then.
 
Ratman_tf said:
I remember Luci posting about FMS before.

Unless it's a false memory. ;)
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No, it's not that. :)

It's not directly related to FMS, but something else.

Funny how the mind works.
 
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