Failed car bomb in Times Square

[Bell]

White male? Bell, this is where the fun in profiling comes in, eh?

How white is white? Do we need to do the plastic bag check?

DR, I have no idea what you are trying to imply

 

[Darth Rotor]

DR, I have no idea what you are trying to imply

Among other things, I was making a joke about racial profiling. Just realized you are in the Netherlands, that reference may not have been obvious. Maybe the joke is too Americo-centric to cross the pond. Not your fault.

As to the plastic bag test, (most plastic shopping bags are white plastic) I was making a crack about something I learned about over a decade ago: the brown paper bag test. From the wikipedia article on colorism, which is more detailed than what I had first understood about this thing ...

The "brown paper bag test" was a ritual once practiced by certain African-American and Creole fraternities and sororities who discriminated against people who were "too dark." That is, these groups would not let anyone into the sorority or fraternity whose skin tone was darker than a paper lunch bag, in order to maintain a perception of standards. Spike Lee's film School Daze satirized this practice at historically black colleges and universities.

The “brown paper bag test” form of colorism is also believed to have been used in the application process to the prestigious Historically Black College Howard University. The University once required students to submit a photograph of themselves, most likely to ensure that the majority of the Universities students were of lighter complexion. Along with the "Paper Bag Test," guidelines for acceptance among the lighter ranks included the "comb test", which tested the coarseness of one's hair, and the "flashlight test," which tested a person's profile, to make sure their features measured up, or were close enough to those of the Caucasian race.

This is a form of "how black is black" which I was trying to lampoon with "how white is white" but I guess it didn't go over very well.

No problem, I killed the joke in the explanation, but it was worth trying.

They can't all be gems.

DR

 

[Bell]

Among other things, I was making a joke about racial profiling. Just realized you are in the Netherlands, that reference may not have been obvious. Maybe the joke is too Americo-centric to cross the pond. Not your fault.

As to the plastic bag test, (most plastic shopping bags are white plastic) I was making a crack about something I learned about over a decade ago: the brown paper bag test. From the wikipedia article on colorism, which is more detailed than what I had first understood about this thing ...


This is a form of "how black is black" which I was trying to lampoon with "how white is white" but I guess it didn't go over very well.

No problem, I killed the joke in the explanation, but it was worth trying.

They can't all be gems.

DR

No problem! And thanks for clearing it up! Always interested to learn (about the US)

Also... African-Americans that are too black to be considered African-American?

 

[TraneWreck]

He was trying to board plane to Dubai for anyone interested.

Why is the Middle East now the chosen escape locale of fugitives? It used to be South America, where all the Nazis hid.

I suppose in this case there's some relation between the crime and where he'd find support, but didn't Michael Jackson hide out in Bahrain so he could sack-tickle 8 year olds without anyone looking over his shoulder?

 

[dudalb]

It's an easy mistake to immediately assume the Tea Bag movement is behind this. When a bunch of old people get together to wave American flags and complain about paying taxes, you just know an SUV bomb in Times Square is the next logical step.

What is ironic is that a lot of the Anti Tea Party people (and I am none too fond of the Tea Party movement myself) use the same tactics and over the top rhetoric and painting with a broad brush that they condemn the Tea Party people for doing.
Fact is, hard line ideologues of ANY stripe behave in similiar manners.

 

[INRM]

Abenja,

You obviously have watched Enemy of the State too many times.

Actually, I only watched "Enemy of the State" once or twice.

As for what I said in my post, those technologies are being developed. The NSA does intend to put the ACQUAINT system into operational use, and when you consider DARPA's "Combat Zones that See" allows a city to be placed under 24/7 surveillance, and that there is work to allow ACQUAINT to be able to make sense of visual data, it is not illogical to conclude that these technologies could ultimately be merged together.

Knowledge is power, with that said, absolute knowledge is absolute power. Any government bent on gathering absolute knowledge on all it's citizens will inevitably, given enough time, use this knowledge to gain absolute power over it's citizens.

Any reason why you ignored my reply to your post? Too afraid to respond because I proved your hypocrisy?

Honestly? Because I thought your response was stupid.

We have this concept (which is also a Constitutionally protected right) in the United States of America called Freedom of Speech, which allows us to speak out against policies the government engages with legal impunity so long as we do not advocate violence, threaten to employ violence, or employ violence.


INRM

 

[dudalb]

He was trying to board plane to Dubai for anyone interested.

Holder didn't give out any new info but he emphasized the investigation is ongoing and they are following more leads. This seems to hint that there are others involved.

Almost all the law enforcments experts I have heard on this say the odds are overwhelming there was more then one person involved.

 

[BeAChooser]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...nsidering-possiblity-of-terrorism-in-car-bomb

05/02/10

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said Sunday morning that the administration is "certainly considering" that the car bomb found in New York's Times Square could be an act of terror.

… snip ...

"We're certainly considering it now that it could be an act of terrorism or was intended to be an act of terrorism," Napolitano said on "Fox News Sunday."

"Could be"? What an idiot. And she's at the top of the pile. Heaven help us. She probably thinks the system worked too.

Like Obama said … the ONLY reason this failed is because of quick thinking ordinary citizens. For all intents and purposes, it succeeded. Our government missed this one. It failed ONLY because the bomb was poorly designed and didn't go off. And I suspect as more details come out, it will be apparent our government missed it in part because some of the methods the Bush Adminstration had wanted to use to prevent terrorist attacks in the US were publically revealed and then stopped by democrats and America's left. Equally frightening is that the morning after the attempted car bombing occurred, many of the major papers (like the LA Times), didn't even mention the attack on the front page. It's not front page news? No, instead they were promoting the May 1st immigration protests and the Arizona law.

 

[TraneWreck]

"Could be"? What an idiot. And she's at the top of the pile. Heaven help us. She probably thinks the system worked too.

Like Obama said … the ONLY reason this failed is because of quick thinking ordinary citizens. For all intents and purposes, it succeeded. Our government missed this one. It failed ONLY because the bomb was poorly designed and didn't go off. And I suspect as more details come out, it will be apparent our government missed it in part because some of the methods the Bush Adminstration had wanted to use to prevent terrorist attacks in the US were publically revealed and then stopped by democrats and America's left. Equally frightening is that the morning after the attempted car bombing occurred, many of the major papers (like the LA Times), didn't even mention the attack on the front page. It's not front page news? No, instead they were promoting the May 1st immigration protests and the Arizona law.

Yeah, how dare Napolitano not fly off and declare her conclusions about the crime before the investigation could take place. Doesn't she know how we roll in the USA?

By the way, Eric Holder:

Based on what we know so far, it is clear that this was a terrorist plot aimed at murdering Americans, in one of the busiest places in our country….with the intent to kill as many innocent tourists and theater goers as possible…Make no mistake, although this car bomb failed to properly detonate, this plot was a very serious attempt. If successful if could have resulted in a lethal terrorist attack causing death and destruction in the heart of New York City

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/ag-holder-times-sq-bomb-could-have-been-lethal-terrorist-attack/

But I would love to hear what sort of mystical Bush powers could have stopped a guy from driving an SUV down the street.

This is just the risk we all face living in a free society. This is also why it's stupid to think expensive wars thousands of miles away will ever stop terrorist attacks at home.

If only they let Jack Bower get to the nuts of a detained cab driver in Kabul this whole think could have been avoided...

 

[BeAChooser]

Yeah, how dare Napolitano not fly off and declare her conclusions about the crime before the investigation could take place.

Good grief. At that point in time, there was absolutely no question that the car was filled with explosives and that someone had tried to detonate them. And that if they'd succeeded, they would have killed dozens if not hundreds. And you're claiming that doesn't clearly qualify as an act of terrorism?

But I would love to hear what sort of mystical Bush powers could have stopped a guy from driving an SUV down the street.

Perhaps he'd have been caught by simply monitoring his calls out of the country to Pakistan. And the calls made from Pakistan to him. Bet there were some. And using Bush's "mystical" powers, we'd have also learned the phone numbers of who he called in the US so we might already have captured any accomplices.

By the way …

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wor...re-car-bomb-plot/story-e6frg1p3-1225862149128 "Overseas phone call led to arrest of suspect in Times Square car bomb plot"

 

[BeAChooser]

The leftist media can excuse anything:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...e_and_heartache_on_ny_car_bomb_terrorist.html

And it looks like some in the leftist media wanted it to be a domestic terrorist:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-...rewer-frustrated-times-square-bomber-muslim-0

MSNBC host Contessa Brewer appeared on the liberal Stephanie Miller radio show on Tuesday and lamented the fact that the person arrested for the attempted Times Square bombing is a Pakistani American. She complained, "I get frustrated...There was part of me that was hoping this was not going to be anybody with ties to any kind of Islamic country." Brewer continued, "...There are a lot of people who want to use terrorist intent to justify writing off people who believe in a certain way or come from certain countries or whose skin color is a certain way. I mean they use it as justification for really outdated bigotry.

 

[Darth Rotor]

No problem! And thanks for clearing it up! Always interested to learn (about the US)

Also... African-Americans that are too black to be considered African-American?

No, it's a sort of discrimination in re mixed race people. See also the idea of "high yellow" if you are interested in that particular phenomenon. Did you read the whole wiki link on colorism? It's an interesting piece.

DR

 

[TraneWreck]

Good grief. At that point in time, there was absolutely no question that the car was filled with explosives and that someone had tried to detonate them. And that if they'd succeeded, they would have killed dozens if not hundreds. And you're claiming that doesn't clearly qualify as an act of terrorism?

Yeah, only if you're going by, say, the legal definition of terrorism:

premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against non-combatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.
—Title 22 of the United States Code section 2656f(d).

I'm sure we've already proven all the elements. Why even wait for a trial?

I understand your frustration with a legal system that operates on more than, "This sure seems like ter-izm to me," but some do abide by a higher standard.

I also enjoy the idea that THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD is what Janet Napolitano calls the crime within a few days of it happening. Not the investigation, not the legal issues, just the words someone uses.

Perhaps he'd have been caught by simply monitoring his calls out of the country to Pakistan. And the calls made from Pakistan to him. Bet there were some. And using Bush's "mystical" powers, we'd have also learned the phone numbers of who he called in the US so we might already have captured any accomplices.

By the way …

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wor...re-car-bomb-plot/story-e6frg1p3-1225862149128 "Overseas phone call led to arrest of suspect in Times Square car bomb plot"

Haha, so the problem with a guy we caught by monitoring phone calls is that we can't monitor phone calls...riiiiiight.

Nothing like casting broad judgment on an investigation based 100% on ignorance. What laws have been changed that specifically restricted law enforcement's ability to prevent this crime? I'm curious how you have access to all these facts.

 

[abenja1]

Abenja,



Actually, I only watched "Enemy of the State" once or twice.

As for what I said in my post, those technologies are being developed. The NSA does intend to put the ACQUAINT system into operational use, and when you consider DARPA's "Combat Zones that See" allows a city to be placed under 24/7 surveillance, and that there is work to allow ACQUAINT to be able to make sense of visual data, it is not illogical to conclude that these technologies could ultimately be merged together.

Knowledge is power, with that said, absolute knowledge is absolute power. Any government bent on gathering absolute knowledge on all it's citizens will inevitably, given enough time, use this knowledge to gain absolute power over it's citizens.



Honestly? Because I thought your response was stupid.

We have this concept (which is also a Constitutionally protected right) in the United States of America called Freedom of Speech, which allows us to speak out against policies the government engages with legal impunity so long as we do not advocate violence, threaten to employ violence, or employ violence.


INRM

First of, I don't think you realize this, but the government has the right to develop technology whether you like it or not. It's called progress.

Have you been London? I have. For every 3 persons there is street camera. You know how many cameras that is? A lot. NYC doesn't even come close to the same amount of cameras. Street cameras are in the city mainly to catch speeders or people who break traffic laws.

No you didn't respond because if you even said that Iran or China had a better human rights record than the USA, I would the evidence up and show how wrong you are.

And stop quoting the Constitution for god's sakes. You're just another one of those Constitution whores who probably went to a book store and bought a pocket sized version of the document and keep it in your pocket so that you appear to be more intelligent when you get into arguments with people. You didn't care about the Constitution 10 years ago, you don't care about it now.

I'll ask once again. How come you are trying to fearmonger in your post? Please answer that. Thank you

 

[Darth Rotor]

Good grief.

That is my response to your first two posts on this topic.

1. How is it that Napolitano is the issue, when the AG had some rational and intelligent things to say. Doesn't the AG and his FBI a lead role in anti terrorism?

2. There is no question that New York got lucky again, with an incompetent attacker. I invite you to rent the movie Nighthawks, with Rutger Hauer and Sly Stallone. Sure, it's all Hollywood and such, but there are a few core points that they got right, back in 1981, about terrorists and terrorism. It is set in New York City.

3. Your third post, in re the MSNBC twit and her frustration that it was another person from a Muslim country who is involved ... I don't understand people who think that way.

4. Your government can do X, be it Bush and his team, or Obama and his team.

The terrorist has the initiative, every time.

DR

 

[barrymore]

Perhaps he'd have been caught by simply monitoring his calls out of the country to Pakistan. And the calls made from Pakistan to him. Bet there were some. And using Bush's "mystical" powers, we'd have also learned the phone numbers of who he called in the US so we might already have captured any accomplices.

Well, without debating the merits of constant call monitoring, how do you propose that you "monitor" calls to Pakistan? There are a quarter of a million Pakistani Americans in the US, not to mention other business/random calls to Pakistan--it's like finding a needle in a haystack the size of the Empire State Building.

 

[dudalb]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...nsidering-possiblity-of-terrorism-in-car-bomb



"Could be"? What an idiot. And she's at the top of the pile. Heaven help us. She probably thinks the system worked too.

Like Obama said … the ONLY reason this failed is because of quick thinking ordinary citizens. For all intents and purposes, it succeeded. Our government missed this one. It failed ONLY because the bomb was poorly designed and didn't go off. And I suspect as more details come out, it will be apparent our government missed it in part because some of the methods the Bush Adminstration had wanted to use to prevent terrorist attacks in the US were publically revealed and then stopped by democrats and America's left. Equally frightening is that the morning after the attempted car bombing occurred, many of the major papers (like the LA Times), didn't even mention the attack on the front page. It's not front page news? No, instead they were promoting the May 1st immigration protests and the Arizona law.

God, what reality do you live in?
You will be amazed how many crimes are stopped because of alert citizens. NO way cops can be everywhere at once.

 

[dudalb]

Well, without debating the merits of constant call monitoring, how do you propose that you "monitor" calls to Pakistan? There are a quarter of a million Pakistani Americans in the US, not to mention other business/random calls to Pakistan--it's like finding a needle in a haystack the size of the Empire State Building.

I am pretty much a hard liner when it comes to terrorism, and I find BAC's rants to be silly.

 

[WildCat]

Aren't Pakistanis white? It's been a long time since my last anthropology course, but I'm pretty certain that Pakistanis (and Arabs) are generally classified as caucasian.

 

[I Ratant]

The silliness about race..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race
.
"In the United States, the term Caucasian has been mainly used to describe a group commonly called White Americans, as defined by the government and Census Bureau.[20] Between 1917 and 1965, immigration to the US was restricted by a national origins quota. The Supreme Court in United States v. Bhagat Singh Thind (1923) decided that Asian Indians – unlike Europeans and Middle Easterners – were Caucasian, but were not white, because most laypeople did not consider them to be white people. This was important for determining whether they could become naturalized citizens, then limited to free whites. The court and government changed its opinion in 1946. In 1965 major changes were made to immigration law, lifting earlier restrictions on immigrants from Asia."