Facebook bans far right groups

[ponderingturtle]

I've posted this before and probably will again, but there was a pro-Trump event that got protested by a group of Black Lives Matter activists. But instead of getting in a fight, the Trumpers gave the BLM people the microphone and it turned out they had a lot of common ground.
The Trumpers were just working-class white people who wanted jobs and the BLM guys wanted dignity and recognition of police brutality.
Both groups hated bad cops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fukHd60uAkI&t=272s

At least they will be happy when america is great and we can throw off these shackles of excessively high wages paid to the working class. Excessive wages is now apparently a problem for all Trumpers so said Trump.

So you would think that the working class Trump supporters would take issue with this kind of thing, like they might not think they are paid far too much but it doesn't seem to affect them at all. Like all the coal miners know that their problems are from excessive safety regulations and excessive pay.

 

[kellyb]

That's correct. There are two reasons that we only hear about the wingnut and Nazi groups:

1. They are the only groups "centrists" and "classical liberals" worry about losing their right to a soap-box for their bile.

2. They are the ones killing other people, thus prompting the clamp down.

Facebook also shut down "venezuela analysis" (leftwing, anti-voiolence page) and Occupy London's facebook page.

 

[sadhatter]

If someone labels themselves as a nazi, then I am going to treat them as though they are a nazi.

If you have any objections to my behavior in this regard, state your case.

Do you often not actually clarify assumed facts before you make judgements?

For example, if your nephew says he is a ninja do you then avoid making him go to bed on time for fear he will kill you?

 

[sadhatter]

I was a 'free speech absolutist' of sorts.

But the effects of social media has made me rethink my position.

The technology has made it possible to radicalise or dupe pockets of extremists. case in point: antivaxers are having a real impact on herd immunity and measles are making a comeback. There are enough idiots to make flat earth believers a thing.

Likewise, extremist groups can radicalise small groups and spur them to violent action. I don't think these ideas can spread beyond a fringe group, bot OTOH these fringe groups can be dangerous.

Just look what the Russian FSB have managed to accomplish in terms of stoking divisions.

If I was running a big social platform, I'd be very concerned that my platform would be instrumental in the next church bombing or mosque shooting.

Social media has changed the game and I'm afraid we must adjust.

You mean other people must adjust.

This is why people hate us on the left. We spend all day coming up with rules that coincidentally have no impact on us but major impact on folks we don't like.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Do you often not actually clarify assumed facts before you make judgements?

For example, if your nephew says he is a ninja do you then avoid making him go to bed on time for fear he will kill you?

Ah so the basic idea is that the right wing are clearly childish immature people who don't understand what they say when they call for the ethnic cleansing of the US of all non whites.

 

[sadhatter]

Who is a danger to society has to be looked at on a case-by-case basis.

Look I understand why this is opposed. I consume quite a bit of way-too-edgy content. I've followed my share of conspiracy theorists, alt-right podcasts, anarchist Youtubers etc. Believe me, I've enjoyed the Wild West of edgy opinions for twenty years. It's practically my hobby. But society will think it is more important that their local Synagogue doesn't get shot up then that Richard Spencer gets to have a say on Twitter. More important that their kid doesn't get a preventable disease than that some uninformed soccer mom gets to play healer on Facebook.

You realize how egotistical you sound right?

"People like myself, obviously can handle such material, but those plebs are dangerous. Their little minds just can't handle so many opinions coming at them. Just look at it. "

Maybe, just maybe you are not a genius and the problem is a bit more complicated of a solution than to use digital horse blunders.

 

[ponderingturtle]

You realize how egotistical you sound right?

"People like myself, obviously can handle such material, but those plebs are dangerous. Their little minds just can't handle so many opinions coming at them. Just look at it. "

Maybe, just maybe you are not a genius and the problem is a bit more complicated of a solution than to use digital horse blunders.

And yet you were just trying the "hey they are just harmless children with their fake ok sign that is supposed to make people think they are a white supremacist for a laugh" Just like the christchurch shooter, he was clearly not a real white supremacist but your basic fake one from social media we can tell by his hands when his arrest photo was published. LOL for everyone who thinks he is a real white supremacist really pulled one over on them!

 

[Eddie Dane]

At least they will be happy when america is great and we can throw off these shackles of excessively high wages paid to the working class. Excessive wages is now apparently a problem for all Trumpers so said Trump.

So you would think that the working class Trump supporters would take issue with this kind of thing, like they might not think they are paid far too much but it doesn't seem to affect them at all. Like all the coal miners know that their problems are from excessive safety regulations and excessive pay.

People who feel left behind voted for a right-wing populist. That's all.

Populists promise the moon and then never deliver. Maybe they will get sick of that eventually. Who knows?

 

[sadhatter]

Ah so the basic idea is that the right wing are clearly childish immature people who don't understand what they say when they call for the ethnic cleansing of the US of all non whites.

Close.

First, most don't say that. Second, those that do are saying it to ruffle your feathers and freak you out and is working.

If I say " I'm gonna tear you in half" as a threat at the bar, you do not have the legal right to then shoot me because it's logical to believe I can do this just because I said it. Reality has to be looked at first.

When the few people say " I'm a nazi" say it, they mean " I'm a really powerful white man, both physically and politically, with an army of like minded folk behind me. " now look at the people saying it. Not a scary group of folks.

 

[sadhatter]

And yet you were just trying the "hey they are just harmless children with their fake ok sign that is supposed to make people think they are a white supremacist for a laugh" Just like the christchurch shooter, he was clearly not a real white supremacist but your basic fake one from social media we can tell by his hands when his arrest photo was published. LOL for everyone who thinks he is a real white supremacist really pulled one over on them!

He was an ******* with a lot of weapons and a lack of empathy.

If I we're to take away his soapbox, his gun or his lack of empathy, I'd pick lack of empathy and avoid a tragedy. You would pick soapbox and people would still be dead.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Do you often not actually clarify assumed facts before you make judgements?

For example, if your nephew says he is a ninja do you then avoid making him go to bed on time for fear he will kill you?

Like I said, if you have any objections to my behavior, please state your case.

I'm not going to waste time answering your dumb questions.

 

[Eddie Dane]

You realize how egotistical you sound right?

"People like myself, obviously can handle such material, but those plebs are dangerous. Their little minds just can't handle so many opinions coming at them. Just look at it. "

Maybe, just maybe you are not a genius and the problem is a bit more complicated of a solution than to use digital horse blunders.

Evidently, I can listen to hours of right-wing podcasts without hating Jews, laugh my ass off at Alex Jones and still not think school shootings are staged, and I doubt I'll find the Flat Earth society convincing.

I don't think I'm very special at all, but this is a numbers game: 5% of us are idiots and therein lies the problem.

This was fine when we had some Neo-Nazi living in Alaska distributing his message to his ten followers by mailing them casette tapes.

What would you do if you were Marc Zuckerberg? Let Alex Jones have his long angry rants about pedophilic drag queens who groom children? And then one of his followers detonates a nail bomb in a gay bar. People start pointing fingers at your respectable multi-billion advertising business. What will your press release look like?

 

[ponderingturtle]

People who feel left behind voted for a right-wing populist. That's all.

Populists promise the moon and then never deliver. Maybe they will get sick of that eventually. Who knows?

They like all the kids in cages stuff and he did manage to get 1 million people off of health insurance so that is good to. Clearly this is what is needed to make america great, I mean getting rid of all the brown people was clear from day one but you can't hold racism against anyone. I mean who here doesn't regularly tweet out white supremacists? It is just one of those things that happens to every basic true american.

 

[ponderingturtle]

He was an ******* with a lot of weapons and a lack of empathy.

If I we're to take away his soapbox, his gun or his lack of empathy, I'd pick lack of empathy and avoid a tragedy. You would pick soapbox and people would still be dead.

He was just a childish kid and no one should have taken anything he said seriously like if you were threatening to tear people in half. Just figures of speech.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Evidently, I can listen to hours of right-wing podcasts without hating Jews, laugh my ass off at Alex Jones and still not think school shootings are staged, and I doubt I'll find the Flat Earth society convincing.

At least the right wing is clear about the real causes of school shootings. Ostracising the nazi kid, that is what really caused the Parkland shooting, not is mildly extreme right wing politics. If only people were more accepting of white supremacists they wouldn't be shooting people. Right wing talking points 101.

 

[jimbob]

We are talking about people who label themselves.....

I could say I'm hung like a horse, doesn't make it true.

If they called themselves werewolves would you assume you needed silver bullets to kill them?

We've apparently already decided to judge people on the basis of superficial signaling, and not their actual actions. That ship has sailed.

As Darat has said it's people who espouse key aspects of Nazi ideology, and are proud to do so. Now you might argue that they are no true Nazi - although I'm not sure Nazism was such a coherent ideology, but it's quite likely that they are closer to Nazism than, say Mormons, Catholics, Presbyterians, and Orthodox Christians, although all claim to be Christian.


Also, if a violent racist wants to be called a Nazi, does it actually matter if they're not doctrinally pure, and spend a bit more hate on Blacks than on Jews?

 

[CORed]

Whoever owns the soapbox.

"OMG the person telling me to get off the soapbox he owns and I don't doesn't meet my standards" isn't... a thing.

I don't care if Facebook tomorrow says "Only left handed pirates can post on Facebook and we'll decide who's a left handed pirate."

Hay, I can still use Facebook under that rule. I'm left handed, and I have been known to use software for which I haven't purchased a proper license (I don't think I'm currently using anything unlicensed, though).

 

[wareyin]

I keep hearing about this but I rarely see it. Is this coming form people who really don't know what American style freedom of speech really means or that political affiliation is not a protected class ?

Sometimes people are shocked when I tell them that in Canada, we don't have freedom of speech like they do in the USA. We gave that up.

Judging by the posters in this thread, I'm going to go with not understanding freedom of speech.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Judging by the posters in this thread, I'm going to go with not understanding freedom of speech.

No it fits with the basic conservative rhetoric around free speech. Free speech is right wing people getting given a platform for free and of course not being turned away for their actions from anything, while having the freedom to turn away gays for being gay.

So it is a violation of free speech for a restaurant to refuse to serve nazi's but a triumph of free speech for a restaurant to turn away homosexuals.

 

[TragicMonkey]

As is Cassandra to the fall of Troy, so am I to the argument by analogy.

I hope not, considering what happened to Cassandra.