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Facebook bans far right groups

I Am The Scum said:
I really don't understand why this is the standard. And what makes a white supremacist group "official" anyways? Is there a government form to fill out?
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here you go...

And the reason is that they are well established and have conventions, they aren't a couple of anonymous people who created an twitter account and a web page.

If you use that low bar as standard, heck let's really push Pizzagate into gear with claims that anyone using a Donkey symbol is advertising as a Kiddie Sex Slaver, after all , all we need to to create a bunch of accounts with it on, on Twitter and Facebook, add a few groups on both, some blogs and a web page or two, then spread the claim to the media and I'm sure we can get some people to believe it, then according to the posters here, it'll be true.
 
PhantomWolf said:
And what so we have to change next? According to the ADL, this same group have been looking at doing more, things like claiming that clapping is anti-feminist, and that the rainbow flag is fascist. Heck, Stout has pointed out that there is a move to make "Hashtag" and # fascist symbols.

The goal of these groups is to make the left look so stupid that no-one will want to be associated with it anymore. How far do we let them push and how many gestures and symbols do we allow them to co-op inside our minds before we say enough is enough and we're not going to allow you to dictate our beliefs with this manipulation.
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And that failed when white supremacists picked it up. Or are we back to the christchurch shooter wasn't really a white supremacist and just a troll?
 
ponderingturtle said:
Look the best take away from this thread is that nothing is racist unless it is from an explicitly racist organization. Hence why we can't say anything about the individuals chanting 6 million more at a holocaust event. That is inherently trolling and they were probably just doing it to trigger the libs. No way can any serious understanding of them being true racist be made from that.
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Mate (or matess. I don't know for sure sorry)


The whole OK hand sign thing was a troll. A wind up. BS

Done by a few admittedly nasty probably pieces of work on one of the chan morphs.

The left fell for it.

But what the issue is for me personally is people actually use it in many shapes and forms, and I know I have probably over mentioned sign language

I haven't mentioned it but by uncle was deaf from birth (dead) and through him I learnt a bit of sign.

Probably over dramatic, but I don't want some dumb idiot in the US hitting some deaf dude for talking to his mate
 
PhantomWolf said:
Care to show the likes of the KKK or other group defined as a WS Group by the ADL, SPLC, or FBI who uses it? I'll wait.
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Yep and hence none of those supposed attacks on mosques and synagogues are done by white supremacists because they are not members of WS groups.
 
cullennz said:
Mate (or matess. I don't know for sure sorry)


The whole OK hand sign thing was a troll. A wind up. BS
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Yes and that is exactly like chanting 6 million more at a holocaust remembrance, it is to wind up the libs. Trolling pure and simple. As it is trolling we can not say anything about those doing it other than that they are trolling the libs.
The left fell for it.
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Like they fell for the idea that an SS flag was racist too, but we have the US marines saying it is not, so officially we can not think someone with just SS symbols is a racist.

The left fell for it because people started using it as such. I know I know you don't think the christchurch shooter really is a white supremacist and just a troll, as we have no solid evidence of full on membership in a properly recognized white supremacist group. Until we have that he is just a troll who is mentally ill to shoot people. Why should we think his "manifesto" is anything but an elaborate triggering of the libs after all?
 
ponderingturtle said:
And that failed when white supremacists picked it up. Or are we back to the christchurch shooter wasn't really a white supremacist and just a troll?
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He, as I noted in a previous post you totally ignored, is a white supremacist wannabe, someone that takes up the beliefs and then sits in their mum's basement radicalising themselves on their webpages as they try hard to be part of something they aren't really a member of. They are followers that think that the grand manifesto and gesture will bring them glory and make them a part of the community. As I also noted they are far more dangerous that your normal organised WS group member exactly because they are on the outside trying to be noticed.

They aren't trolls, they are deluded idiots that have fallen for the exact same hoax you have. They think that flashing the symbol is so sooper secret code that shows that they are on the know, they are a part of the community, and in reality they are idiots and they aren't a part of any organisation.

In compassion, they are like the suicide bomber who thinks he is a part of ISIS just because he watched their videos online and spent time on a radical website.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Yes and that is exactly like chanting 6 million more at a holocaust remembrance, it is to wind up the libs. Trolling pure and simple. As it is trolling we can not say anything about those doing it other than that they are trolling the libs.


Like they fell for the idea that an SS flag was racist too, but we have the US marines saying it is not, so officially we can not think someone with just SS symbols is a racist.

The left fell for it because people started using it as such. I know I know you don't think the christchurch shooter really is a white supremacist and just a troll, as we have no solid evidence of full on membership in a properly recognized white supremacist group. Until we have that he is just a troll who is mentally ill to shoot people. Why should we think his "manifesto" is anything but an elaborate triggering of the libs after all?
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Um no

But I am sure you will in short time show where I said this
 
ponderingturtle said:
Yea nothing remotely objectionable about a couple of sig runes. See the marines for proof.
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I get your point.

But my point is that you don't just cede your symbols because some group appropriates those symbols.

When the Freemasons adopted the Star of David, the Jews didn't just go 'Aw shucks, well you guys keep it then'.

My wife's family has been peacefully living in the Italian Alps since 400 BC (give or take a couple of beheadings) and belong to a minority that has a cool design style. You don't drop that because some drunken racist picked something out at the tattoo shop. I'm talking intricate designs, obviously. Not a friggin SS flag.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Care to show the likes of the KKK or other group defined as a WS Group by the ADL, SPLC, or FBI who uses it? I'll wait.
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You said, "The real WS don't use it to 'dog-whistle' each other." One can be a white supremacist without being in any organized group. You're just wrong.

And even if you adjusted your claim to say "official white supremacist" (whatever that means), then your point is bizarre and irrelevant. The current discussion is whether or not it is a sign used by racists. I don't need a stamp of approval from some idiot in a hood to make that determination on my own.
 
cullennz said:
Um no

But I am sure you will in short time show where I said this
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It's his classic strawman, he totally ignores what you actually say, and then accuses you of saying what he thinks you should have so he can argue that instead.
 
PhantomWolf said:
He, as I noted in a previous post you totally ignored, is a white supremacist wannabe, someone that takes up the beliefs and then sits in their mum's basement radicalising themselves on their webpages as they try hard to be part of something they aren't really a member of. They are followers that think that the grand manifesto and gesture will bring them glory and make them a part of the community. As I also noted they are far more dangerous that your normal organised WS group member exactly because they are on the outside trying to be noticed.
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And how many of those supposed groups are not real white supremacist groups but just full of wannabe's?

Is Matthew Heimbach a real white supremacist or a wannabe?

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mbkadb/matthew-heimbach-the-white-nationalist-in-that-bizarre-love-triangle-is-going-to-jail Would argue that he is just a wannabe.
They aren't trolls, they are deluded idiots that have fallen for the exact same hoax you have. They think that flashing the symbol is so sooper secret code that shows that they are on the know, they are a part of the community, and in reality they are idiots and they aren't a part of any organisation.
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Secret codes have always been a part of these groups though. The superman radio show fought the KKK by exposing their secret codes.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/503813/how-superman-helped-foil-kkk

Now does this mean that the KKK then was not a real white supremacist organization or what?

In compassion, they are like the suicide bomber who thinks he is a part of ISIS just because he watched their videos online and spent time on a radical website.
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And yet we consider them islamic terrorists for some weird reason.
 
I Am The Scum said:
You said, "The real WS don't use it to 'dog-whistle' each other." One can be a white supremacist without being in any organized group. You're just wrong.

And even if you adjusted your claim to say "official white supremacist" (whatever that means), then your point is bizarre and irrelevant. The current discussion is whether or not it is a sign used by racists. I don't need a stamp of approval from some idiot in a hood to make that determination on my own.
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The reason I look at the groups is because we know they are real WS groups. Pointing at a website or twitter account and saying that person is a WS, especially when we know that the Hoaxers created a heap of them to push the hoax, means you would need to show that the account was for a real person and not a hoaxer account trying to spread it, that said person was really a WS, and not just a right-winger trying to upset liberals, and that they weren't just using it because they have fallen for the same hoax.

If you want to meet that burden instead of the easier one I suggested of known groups, go for it, though showing actual WS groups using it would be the best proof, because if it was really a WS symbol, don't you think that well known WS groups would all be using it?
 
Eddie Dane said:
I get your point.

But my point is that you don't just cede your symbols because some group appropriates those symbols.

When the Freemasons adopted the Star of David, the Jews didn't just go 'Aw shucks, well you guys keep it then'.
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Except of course that the star of david was never uniquely jewish or considered especially jewish 200 years ago. The nazis and its use in military graveyards made it more associated with judaism that it was before. Kind of like the pink triangle has been adopted by the LGBT community.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_David

My wife's family has been peacefully living in the Italian Alps since 400 BC (give or take a couple of beheadings) and belong to a minority that has a cool design style. You don't drop that because some drunken racist picked something out at the tattoo shop. I'm talking intricate designs, obviously. Not a friggin SS flag.
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But we have proof that SS flags are flow by people who are totally not real racists, see the US marines for that. So the mere flying of an SS flag can not be used to show someone is a racist just like any other symbol.
 
cullennz said:
The left fell for it.
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This, alone, is the most bizarre assertion in the discussion.

First, that we need some sort of signed form from a recognized organization to show that something is a known white supremacist symbol, yet we're to believe that "the left" fell for anything;

Second, that "the left" actually did anything but note that some white supremacists use the "OK" hand sign to communicate amongst one another - something plainly confirmed by the Christchurch shooter, Mike Cernovich, Richard Spencer, Milo Yawhatever etc.

The first is incoherent, the second willfully ignorant at best. Fix both.
 
PhantomWolf said:
The reason I look at the groups is because we know they are real WS groups. Pointing at a website or twitter account and saying that person is a WS, especially when we know that the Hoaxers created a heap of them to push the hoax, means you would need to show that the account was for a real person and not a hoaxer account trying to spread it, that said person was really a WS, and not just a right-winger trying to upset liberals, and that they weren't just using it because they have fallen for the same hoax.

If you want to meet that burden instead of the easier one I suggested of known groups, go for it, though showing actual WS groups using it would be the best proof, because if it was really a WS symbol, don't you think that well known WS groups would all be using it?
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Not really, social media changes everything.
 
PhantomWolf said:
You really need to go and read the ADL's research on it. One of the things the Hoaxers did was create a bunch of fake twitter accounts and groups to spread the idea. You are still falling for a hoax. The real WS don't use it to "dog-whistle' each other. the Hoaxers and now a bunch of others that like stirring up Left wing liberals, use it to stir you up.
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I have read the ADL link you posted. It doesn't say what you present it as saying.

It is not me falling for the hoax, but you.
 
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