Facebook bans far right groups

[I Am The Scum]

To those that legitimately do not see a problem with the OK gesture in any form, I offer you an interesting counterargument:

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I have a confession to make. I've been lying this entire time, though I prefer the term "trolling." Over the course of this thread, I have argued in many ways that racists should be banned from social media. The truth is, I don't actually believe that. You think I'm going to accurately display my beliefs to you? Typical. If you believed anything I said, then you have only yourself and your lack of skepticism to blame. My lack of honesty played no morally culpable role whatsoever.

The truth is, I don't really care one way or another if racists get banned. I merely behave as though I do in order to get a reaction from those on the right. It's something I like to call "triggering the cons." And as long as my behavior is getting a rise out of the people that I don't like, then it's all good, right?

At this point, some of you may be concerned that my behavior has produced the consequence of getting people banned, even though I don't really want that to happen. Well that just proves that you too have fallen for my elaborate scheme. After all, if you react in any way, then you're triggered.

As a centrist, deep down, you know who's really to blame: Anyone who's politically to the right of me. The fact that this lopsidedness completely belies you're espoused centrism, as well as the fact I would appear to be solely responsible for starting this entire misunderstanding in the first place is completely beside the point. We know that the right is in the wrong, and I am under no rational obligation to explain why.

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At this point, we are forced to deal with two competing hypotheses. Either (a) the above section has revealed what my true intentions have been all along, or (b) I just made all that up for rhetorical purposes.

From this, I ask two questions:

1. What constitutes good evidence that the above section is true?

2. Do you consider hypothesis A or B more likely, and, regardless of your choice, am I morally culpable for the results of my actions/dishonesty in any way? Why or why not?

 

[Baylor]

Not to defend the Christchurch terrorist, but he's not a special case of right wing moron. He's fairly representative of a lot of the extreme right. He was part of the forum that coined the ok-"hoax". The only thing that makes him different is that he's acted on his beliefs. Not all of them have. Yet.

Also, the libs aren't upset because the right wingers flash the ok sign. They are upset because people like you keep telling them to ignore it.

Christchurch shooter was a Leftist.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Guys, please don't chase the stupid stick.

 

[Mumbles]

The goal in these actions is to trigger the libs, so by definition it is trolling. That really is the case. They are not chanting "6 million more" to win converts they are doing it to trigger the libs.

This appears to be the form of argument made on this board, using the same type of input, so I don't see how it's a strawman at all, really.

But at this point, we're ignoring the point of a symbol. The Christchurch terrorist isn't going to get much time to blather in court - he'd likely be gagged almost immediately if he tried in the US - so the hand gesture is a rough stand-in to announce that, in fact, he was a member of one of the above message boards. As has been said repeatedly (and I'll only bother saying one last time), this is how symbols work.

It's much like how one needs multiple references to figure out whether or not someone is a member of any other gang. If you just Crip Walk, that's a dance. If you also do hand signs, dropped out of school, have Crip symbols on your Twitter feed, wear clothes popularly associated with a local Crip set, and have photos of yourself with known Crips from that same set, you're probably a Crip. Anyone who says that the Crip hand signs is "just trolling" would be a fool.

ETA: and this is putting aside the return of the meaningless sneer term "SJW".

 

[Stout]

Christchurch shooter was a Leftist.

See, this is just why good progressives need to act and prevent further tragedies like this. Take this whole fashtag business. I know this guy who heard that the alt-right are communication on social media using these things. They're speaking in a kind of code, sending out messages like.

#i, #ow are you ?
Just #ine, thanks.

And there you have it, one alt-right meets another and a movement is born.

All good progressive people need to get in on the ground floor and stop this fashtag thing before it destroys society like the OK hand symbol has done. Progressives need to take to Twitter and report everyone they see using a hashtag. Pardon me, fashtag. There's a LOT of people using those things over there.

Start by following me...@blackveganchick1488 ( born Jan 4, 1988 ), look at my followers list and you have thousands of nazis to choose from. I don't know why they follow me, they don't want to talk about being black, they don't want to talk about being a woman, they don't want to talk about being a lesbian, they don't want to talk about being a vegan, they don't want to talk about my graduate degree in gender studies from Berkley.

All they want to talk about is how much they hate the juice.

Maybe they're those eat-the-whole-fruit type of nazis ?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Christchurch shooter was a Leftist.

No, he was not. His political views were inconsistent and all over the place.

 

[Baylor]

No, he was not. His political views were inconsistent and all over the place.

He was an avowed communist. Communism has always been 'on the left' wrt the left/right political spectrum. His actions were consistent with communist regimes of the past in "purging" (for lack of a better world) religious communities. Violence against religious communities is part and parcel for communism and part of the communist creed.

 

[thaiboxerken]

He was an avowed communist. Communism has always been 'on the left' wrt the left/right political spectrum. His actions were consistent with communist regimes of the past in "purging" (for lack of a better world) religious communities. Violence against religious communities is part and parcel for communism and part of the communist creed.

An avowed communist that had this to say:

" To Antifa/Marxists/Communists

I do not want to convert you, I do not want to come to an understanding. Egalitarians and those that believe in heirachy will never come to terms.I don’t want you by my side or I don’t want share power.

I want you in my sights. I want your neck under my boot.

SEE YOU ON THE STREETS YOU ANTI-WHITE SCUM"


Try again.

full text of his manifesto is here for reference: https://www.europeanfreedom.com/201...enton-tarrant-the-new-zealand-mosque-shooter/

 

[Baylor]

He was referring to the "multicultural" affluent bourgeois communists. He expressed admiration for the Chinese Communist Party and Chinese style communism. His blaming "capitalist" is further proof of his political affiliation.

 

[thaiboxerken]

He called himself an eco-fascist, not a communist. Yes, he said he admired the Chinese Communists, but more for the racism and nationalism. I linked the manifesto. Anyone can read that your claim "he was an avowed communist" and "he was a leftist" is nonsense.

 

[uke2se]

You know what was going on in his head?

Only what has become public knowledge about his manifesto (haven't and won't read it)

No you aren't because you are claiming that anyone that does it is racist, a claim that the ADL categorically refutes by pointing out that it has become a thing with some member of the right to do merely to upset Liberals. Doing something to upset liberals is not doing it because racism.

No, I'm not claiming that. You haven't been reading my posts I take it.

 

[ponderingturtle]

This appears to be the form of argument made on this board, using the same type of input, so I don't see how it's a strawman at all, really.

But at this point, we're ignoring the point of a symbol. The Christchurch terrorist isn't going to get much time to blather in court - he'd likely be gagged almost immediately if he tried in the US - so the hand gesture is a rough stand-in to announce that, in fact, he was a member of one of the above message boards. As has been said repeatedly (and I'll only bother saying one last time), this is how symbols work.

It's much like how one needs multiple references to figure out whether or not someone is a member of any other gang. If you just Crip Walk, that's a dance. If you also do hand signs, dropped out of school, have Crip symbols on your Twitter feed, wear clothes popularly associated with a local Crip set, and have photos of yourself with known Crips from that same set, you're probably a Crip. Anyone who says that the Crip hand signs is "just trolling" would be a fool.

ETA: and this is putting aside the return of the meaningless sneer term "SJW".

I always think of myself as more a social justice sorcerer. Got to have a balanced party after all.

 

[Eddie Dane]

You, and others, attribute far too much hipness to the reprobates who are using it. To the perps, White Power isn't a joke. It's a calling. These aren't uber hip net denizens. They probably think 4Chan is a new Chinese takeaway in the strip mall.

It doesn't matter where it started, whether 4Chan or 8Chan or they got it off a box of Weetabix. The fact that you think it's ironic does not mean the people using it do. The simple fact that they think it's funny, if that's the case, should also tell you something.

I'm trying to find the humour in having someone think I'm a racist, and I must be missing something, 'cuz it escapes me.

Usually, once an ironic trope gets adopted by people who are too dumb to understand irony, it stops being ironic.

 

[Eddie Dane]

That, and swastikas and seig heils weren't ubiquitous symbols that had a variety of connotations.

Very few people who are not WP types can use those symbols.

Like me, for instance. Because I identify both as an ancient Roman and a Buddhist.

 

[Stout]

Holy ****

Tarrant's actual manifesto. That could result in some serious prison time in New Zealand for posting that.

If all this censorship is supposed to be about stopping nazis, then why on earth would a good and progressive website like World Socialist Web Site be worried about The Christchurch Call ?

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/05/18/chch-m18.html

 

[Foolmewunz]

You are still strawmanning this entire thing.

The fact is that we know for a fact that the whole "OK=WP" thing was a hoax, created on 4chan with the expressly stated purpose of triggering liberals to make them look so stupid that no one would want anything to do with them.

If you can find any evidence that WS do everything else to troll Liberalsm then post it, otherwise stop with the pathetic strawman.

He is not straw-manning. He is extrapolating your argument because you refuse to address the elephant in the room.

I asked before....

Do Any of Those Defending OK/WP Signals as "All a Joke" actually assume that everyone caught using the symbol is in on the big laugh? All of them? Or would you concede the power of the interwebs and that it's more than possible, but probable, that these ignorant miscreants really think they're making hand signals to show their fellow bigots that they've got company?

Again, who thinks it's funny to pose making racist symbols, even jokingly? I'm a cynical nasty-mouthed individual and was described by a friend once as a "shock jock without a radio station" because I will sometimes say whatever pops into my head. And I would NEVER want to appear to be something I'm not. "Hey, I'm gonna look like a racist in the school year book because it'll piss off the liberals!" Nope. Not if I'm not actually a racist. How much more likely that it was, "Hey, we can pretend to be posing for a casual picture but be defiant rebels and show the libtards and darkies what we really think of them!"

 

[jimbob]

You are still strawmanning this entire thing.

The fact is that we know for a fact that the whole "OK=WP" thing was a hoax, created on 4chan with the expressly stated purpose of triggering liberals to make them look so stupid that no one would want anything to do with them.

If you can find any evidence that WS do everything else to troll Liberalsm then post it, otherwise stop with the pathetic strawman.

Was the Christchurch shooter pretending to be a racist?

It might have started as a joke, but it's being used in ernest.

 

[Baylor]

Usually, once an ironic trope gets adopted by people who are too dumb to understand irony, it stops being ironic.

Do you think politicians use the symbol should be removed from office?

 

[Baylor]

Do Any of Those Defending OK/WP Signals as "All a Joke" actually assume that everyone caught using the symbol is in on the big laugh? All of them? Or would you concede the power of the interwebs and that it's more than possible, but probable, that these ignorant miscreants really think they're making hand signals to show their fellow bigots that they've got company?

And I've already told you. It's not the symbol that's the joke. It's the reaction to the symbol that's the joke. Do you understand?

Please stop asking the same questions over and over when they've already been answered. Asking once....nicely.

 

[Baylor]

Very few people who are not WP types can use those symbols.

That's kinda the point of what I said.