Explain how homeopathy is better for:

You left out Hippocrates who is the Father of modern medicine.

Where is the difference here then? This also makes modern medicine a cult too and no different to anything else.

Homeopathy is a form of medicine that was found, developed and practiced by a doctor also.
 
Kumar has now forfeited all right to be treated reasonably - attacking people here with the caps lock key on is the last straw.

Kumar, you can use a computer and presumably realise that some products of scientific thinking are not to be copied or replaced by delusional conctructs. Homoeopathy is about as sensible as trying to communicate with us by telepathy, or building a bridge based on Feng Shui. It's simply the fact that the body has very good self-healing capabilities and often gets better entirely unaided that allows you to pretend that homoeopathy is doing anything more constructive than attempts to replace your computer with telepathy.

BSM, Hans, Geni and I (and several other people here) have studied homoeopathy in detail. In much more detail than you want to study real science, frankly. We've read the books, and we've read the papers. Some of us have even tried to self-prove homoeopathic remedies, or have even been treated by homoeopathy. It is as obvious to us that it is nonsense as it would be obvious to you that you can't run a car by putting water in the petrol tank.

You will neither accept the advice of people who understand science and medicine, or learn for yourself. So go away. Just don't tell us to study that homoeopathy nonsense any more. We know more about it than you do.

Goodbye.

Rolfe.
 
Homeoskeptic said:
Where is the difference here then? This also makes modern medicine a cult too and no different to anything else.
You think any doctor these days even thinks about Hippocrates or who he was or what he taught, beyond that "Hippocratic Oath" bit?

The constant reverence for the Great Profit Hahnemann says rather a lot about you people I'm afraid.

Rolfe.
 
Hippocrates was the one who first discovered the 'law of similars' and developed this. He was followed by other empiricists.

Hahnemann was not the only homeopath of his day, there was also Kent, Boericke, Bonninghausen, Herring and others. Homeopathy has also been developed and carried forward by other homeopaths such as Sankaran, Master, Chabra and the Bombay School of Homeopathy. There are also others such as Gheghas and Vithoulkas, Assilem and Massimo Mangialavori. There are lots more besides who practice worldwide. Ullman in the States and Miranda Castro, Alize Timmerman and a whole host of others.

The world is full of excellent homeopaths which is perhaps a little unfortunate for you guys really.:D
 
Homeoskeptic said:
Tell me then, why do homeopaths achieve long lasting cures of their patients then and why do they have so many?

Perhaps rather than keep saying it does not work, you should concentrate your efforts on finding out exactly how it does work!! Theres a thought.

Just for your information, I graduated from medical school and did a three year postgraduate course so that I could practice homeopathy. I have also undertaken further postgraduate courses the longer I have been in practice. I am currently studying with an Italian homeopathic doctor out in Italy on a three postgraduate course there.

Perhaps you should try homeopathy sometime, you might be surprised to find that it works for you.
Now isn't that interesting. The original comments in this thread were made by and to Corallinus, who swears she isn't Naturalhealth. Now Homeoskeptic, who is Naturalhealth and has admitted to that, and whose line of argument and style of English only bears a truly surreal resemblance to Corallinus by some spooky coincidence, just jumps in and continues the conversation as if it was all addressed to her in the first place.

Which of course it was. BSM has posted the rules about sock puppets. I suggest you decide which username you want and "retire" the other before one of the admins does it for you.

Now, back to "it works!", which is all you seem to be able to say. If these cures are real, and so numerous, how come this striking effect completely disappears as soon as everyone concerned no longer knows who has been given the remedy and who hasn't? How come homoeopathy is lurking at the fringes of medicine, lacking acceptance by all but the most "new-age" oddities, if it can demonstrate efficacy? How come even prominent homoeopaths like Lionel Milgrom and Harald Walach are having to postulate weird and wonderful "magic" modes of action dependent of some sort of power of the mind of the practitioner to explain the rather embarrassing fact (which they simply can't deny) that when faced with any of the standard tests to see whether a medical intervention is having any effect or not, the result always comes out as "not"?

Now, we say, what's the point of postulating possible modes of action until you know there is a real effect there to explain? And indeed, there have been trials where even "magic" worked by the practitioner should have shown up if it was there, and these have been null as well.

If this effect were real, it wouldn't be the medics who would be most interested. Medicine has a history of pragmatism, of adopting self-evident working treatments and worrying about how they work later. If homoeopathy really worked, the medics would mostly just get on and use it. The people who would be really all over it would be the physicists and chemists, because all their up-to-the-minute theories about how the universe actually works would be shown to be incomplete, to put it politely.

Physicists and chemists just live to be the first one to explain a hitherto puzzling phenomenon. If there really were a homoeopathic effect, it would be Nobel Prize territory for whoever figured it out. So why is nobody of any stature looking at this? Simply because they no there is no effect there, and wasting one's career trying to explain something that doesn't happen is academic suicide. (Ask Jacques Benveniste!)

So, Naturalhealth (I'll just keep calling you that, as both socks seem to answer to the name), prove there is an effect, and you won't have to ask twice to find the cream of the scientific community fighting to be allowed to explain it. Until then, carry on quacking.

We know you don't have a medical degree because even a third year medical student could write better case studies than you can manage. And because you completely forgot which diploma to pretend to have, if that were the case, before BSM inadvertently reminded you. So why not go and be a useful citizen - take up Italian again, why don't you?

And by the way, I've tried homoeopathy three times - twice as a patient, and once a self-proving because all these homoeopaths said I ought to. Guess what happened every time? Nothing. And the replies I got were mainly that homoeopathy doesn't work on sceptics! So much for the pretence at material science! (And ignoring the fact that the first time I wasn't a sceptic, as I knew nothing at all about this strange new "doctor" my parents had taken me to, and had no reason at all to believe the pills he gave me wouldn't cure me. But they didn't.)

Rolfe.
 
Homeoskeptic said:
Hippocrates was the one who first discovered the 'law of similars' and developed this. He was followed by other empiricists.

Hahnemann was not the only homeopath of his day, there was also Kent, Boericke, Bonninghausen, Herring and others. Homeopathy has also been developed and carried forward by other homeopaths such as Sankaran, Master, Chabra and the Bombay School of Homeopathy. There are also others such as Gheghas and Vithoulkas, Assilem and Massimo Mangialavori. There are lots more besides who practice worldwide. Ullman in the States and Miranda Castro, Alize Timmerman and a whole host of others.

The world is full of excellent homeopaths which is perhaps a little unfortunate for you guys really.:D
More appeals to popularity? If you have to rely on people dead for centuries, and blatant idiots like Ullman and Vithoulkas, you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

By the way, do remember to spell Constantine Hering's surname correctly.

Rolfe.
 
Homeoskeptic said:
Tell me then, why do homeopaths achieve long lasting cures of their patients then and why do they have so many?
....

Even for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy?

So try answering the question that is the title of this thread with a detailed list of how homeopathy is better for ALL the conditions listed in the first post. And remember... to make sure to explain exactly how it is better... especially for self-limiting things like gets growing out of having problems with croup.

editted because I forgot a phrase
 
Homeoskeptic said:
Hippocrates was the one who first discovered the 'law of similars' and developed this. He was followed by other empiricists.
...

Explain how the "law of similars" is an actual scientific "law".

Please note the chronilogical steps it took from "hypothesis" to "theory" to "law". From my understanding in science it cannot be a "law" until it has been absolutely proven.

See http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Physical_law and
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Science
 
AS WE INSISTED-- READ/STUDY THE BOOKS & THEN DISCUSS, COMMENT OR CONTRADICT. TILL THEN, JUST ASK FOR LEARNING NOT FOR JOKING OR CONTRADICTING & ACCEPT & RESPECT AS TAUGHT.:D
 
Homeoskeptic said:
Hippocrates was the one who first discovered the 'law of similars' and developed this. He was followed by other empiricists.

Hahnemann was not the only homeopath of his day, there was also Kent, Boericke, Bonninghausen, Herring and others. Homeopathy has also been developed and carried forward by other homeopaths such as Sankaran, Master, Chabra and the Bombay School of Homeopathy. There are also others such as Gheghas and Vithoulkas, Assilem and Massimo Mangialavori. There are lots more besides who practice worldwide. Ullman in the States and Miranda Castro, Alize Timmerman and a whole host of others.

The world is full of excellent homeopaths which is perhaps a little unfortunate for you guys really.:D

1. I criticise homeopathy for cultish adherence to a father-figure.

2. You accuse real medicine of having Hippocrates as a father figure

3. It is pointed out that mentioning Hippocrates one in a blue moon by real medics does not make him a cult centre, whereas every other posting by homeopaths cites one or other of their cult figures.

4. You respond by claiming Hippocrates as a cult figure for homeopathy. Which rather proves point 1.

You persistently mistake following an authority with arguing from evidence. This demonstrates the intellectual weakness of homeopathy not its strength.

Also please decide whether you have an degree in Italian and no science training or a medical degree and whether you studied for many years in South Africa or London to get your cereal packet diplomas: remember your claims for UK homeopathic education depend on maintaining the pretence you are a doctor, whereas the SA claims are not logically inconsistent with having an Italian degree, so choose one that gives you some internal consistency please.
 
Kumar said:
AS WE INSISTED-- READ/STUDY THE BOOKS & THEN DISCUSS, COMMENT OR CONTRADICT. TILL THEN, JUST ASK FOR LEARNING NOT FOR JOKING OR CONTRADICTING & ACCEPT & RESPECT AS TAUGHT.:D

Kumar,

I'm afraid you are now well down the well-trodden path at internet forums of the crank poster who presents illogical beliefs, will not accept the counter-evidence and resorts to ranting. You can still go back and consider the evidence or carry on like this. Which is the grown-up thing to do?
 
Kumar said:
AS WE INSISTED-- READ/STUDY THE BOOKS & THEN DISCUSS, COMMENT OR CONTRADICT. TILL THEN, JUST ASK FOR LEARNING NOT FOR JOKING OR CONTRADICTING & ACCEPT & RESPECT AS TAUGHT.:D
Kumar, if you read all the posts here carefully, you will see that some of us already HAVE read the majority of the homeopathic books and literature. And, as Rolfe has pointed out a few times now, these skeptics obviously know far more about them than most of you homeopaths do, judging by the silly stuff you all come up with all the time. So I think we are all quite entitled to contradict and criticise these works of fiction.
 
Homeoskeptic said:
You left out Hippocrates who is the Father of modern medicine.

Where is the difference here then? This also makes modern medicine a cult too and no different to anything else.

Homeopathy is a form of medicine that was found, developed and practiced by a doctor also.

1) Homeopathy was founded by an Irish con artist by the name of Butler, who was not a doctor of anyting. He wrote a book about it, Hahnemann read it and merely marketed the idea better than Butler. In that sense, Hahnemann was a plagiarist, and hpaths have been hiding this fact for around 200 years. (Source, "Homeopathy and its Kindred Delusions," Oliver Wendell Holmes, MD; 1842.")

2) In the USA, it is not lible nor slander to say anything about a generic group of people, so claiming all homeopaths are "X" no matter how bad is protected by the first amendment of the Constitution of the USA. This is why homeopaths never criticise any specific allopathic doctor, but only generalize about allopathy to avoid being sued. I suppose BSM is just fighting fire with fire, but I would try to avoid any direct accusations even if it is just to keep the discussion somewhat civil even if most of you think naturalhealth is not on the level.

3) I would say that the fathers of modern medicine are people like OW Holmes, Karl Popper, and many others who insisted on evidence based medicine and science, something which hpaths avoid at every turn.

4) Modern medicine must pass three human clinical trials under the strictest of conditions designed to avoid self deception and cheating. Homeopathy just makes things up, breaks its own rules and rationalizes failure largely based in the fact that according to hpaths, "homeopathy is not testable." Homeopaths both simultaneously acknowledge Hahnemannian classical methods, and at some times ignore those rules. A good example is your claim that hpathy is effective against many allopathic conditions, yet this violates the very pillars of hpathy put forth by Hahnemann in the Organon of Medicine right in the beginning: "It is not the role of the physician to theorize about how the body works nor the cause of disease."

So you can understand our confusion at your responses. Is there even one single, solid claim that any of you homeopath apologists can claim???
 
BSM,ZEP,

I was also thinking that I have read so many things but still you insisted as you felt differantly. Acordingly, your cases are also similar to my case with you. A person brillient in one subject can be idiot in other subject. Half read can be more dangerous. I think it was/is your point of view.
 
OK Kumar,

Plaeas list ten solid facts about homeopathy that the overwhelming majority of homeopaths will agree is true. I think this is fair as you are calling us ignorant of homeopathy, and we respond with something like "homeopaths claim contradictory things." Educate us.
 
Quasi,

I think members here said that they can't teach biochemistry, physiology etc. to me in this forum. It was bit practical & therefore, I started reading myself & will ask ony those questions which are not clear in studying it. I think you can also do that. Just search google, 'Homeopathy' you will find so many sites. You may also refer:

http://www.homeopathyhome.com/reference/index.shtml

http://www.hpathy.com/course/index.asp

http://www.indiangyan.com/books/homeopathybooks/biochemic_treatment/index.shtml

If you like you can buy some books from:

http://www.minimum.com/p7/engine/cats3.asp?category=tis

http://www.bjainbooks.com/catergory...ag=view&recstart_no=1&username=RVxyz322925692
 
Kumar said:
Quasi,

I think members here said that they can't teach biochemistry, physiology etc. to me in this forum. It was bit practical & therefore, I started reading myself & will ask ony those questions which are not clear in studying it. I think you can also do that. Just search google, 'Homeopathy' you will find so many sites. You may also refer:

Kumar

You are still missing the point. We know plenty about homeopathy. Enough to know it is nonsense. The 'Tope Ten Questions' thread represents a brief summary of fatal errors present in homeopathy.

You cannot point to an equivalent set for real medicine because it doesn't exist.

(Edited to remove crappy links)
 
BSM,

Anyone can make such an opinion about himself, but it does not justify that he is fully capable of pointing, commenting or contradicting any system--which is not yet completely & systematically studied & experianced by him. It is said that half studied is more dangerous than no studied. If you would had studied & experianced it fully & properly, than you would have respected it as respected & accepted by others & so many MD doctors-- at least on the ground that hard work, observations, experiances & other works done by so many well qualified, creative & intellegent people. Opposing any mass existing & well distributed system since long, can be just due to vested interests, ignorances or foolishness but not on the technicalities, because today's public can't be so fool/illitrate as you thought. So just follow nature best law for the survival, maintainance & balance i.e. ' Live & let live ' - a permanet feature-- not ' divide & rule' which may be bit civil/social & may gives temporary benefits with long term sufferings.
 
Kumar said:
AS WE INSISTED-- READ/STUDY THE BOOKS & THEN DISCUSS, COMMENT OR CONTRADICT. TILL THEN, JUST ASK FOR LEARNING NOT FOR JOKING OR CONTRADICTING & ACCEPT & RESPECT AS TAUGHT.:D

Dear sir... please explain what Avogadro's Number is... and think about why the skeptics keep bringing it up.
 
Hydrogen Cyanide said:


Dear sir... please explain what Avogadro's Number is... and think about why the skeptics keep bringing it up.
It is just a limit of atomic/molecular presence not of energy which is E=mc^2. Moreover, CPE is not beyond Avogadro's limit.

"HIGHER POTENCIES INITIATES COMMON CPE & HUNGER/NEED OF ANY SUBSTANCE DECIDE WHAT & WHICH TO CURE".
 

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