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Ex-Hacker Adrian Lamo Institutionalized for Asperger’s

rjwould

Critical Thinker
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
494
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/05/lamo/

I don't like the idea of a government entity picking people up and institutionalizing them like this, no matter how friendly and caring the hospital staff is. I also have a real problem with calling this a disorder. Its not a disorder, its an adaptation or a mutation in the brain (not sure witch) like, say, emotions. Our societies are labeling differences which cause alternative, outside-the-box behaviors and thinking as disorders and that scares me.

If only our cultures truly took evolutionary theory seriously.
 
I read the article. I'm not real sure what you are talking about. He wasn't "institutionalized for asperger's," he was institutionalized because the police and a judicial officer thought he was either a danger to others or unable to care for himself, then diagnosed as having asperger's, and released.
 
Something about his halting, monotone speech, perhaps slowed by his medication, got the officers’ attention.
As in Lamo’s case, the diagnosis often follows a run-in with the police, says Dennis Debbaudt, an independent consultant who trains law enforcement agencies on interacting with people on the autistic spectrum.

“They may be living a life where people think they’re odd, they’re unusual, they’re eccentric, whatever you want to call it,” says Debbaudt. “But nobody’s thinking, ‘Oh, by the way, I think they have Asperger’s Syndrome.’ It’s not something that would pop into the mind of the general person or law enforcement. It’s just, ‘There’s something different here. This person communicates different. His body language is different.”
You think monotone speech is sufficient reason for law enforcement to institutionalize a person for possible endangerment to themselves or others? Thats rather stereotypical thinking, no?
 
You think monotone speech is sufficient reason for law enforcement to institutionalize a person for possible endangerment to themselves or others? Thats rather stereotypical thinking, no?

Until the article quotes one of the cops, lets just say I am skeptical of the account of someone who was at the time found to be needing of commitment for mental health reasons. Who knows how he was acting...
 
Okay. What does it say?

It clearly says the speech got the officers' attention.
It does not say that the officers then institutionalised the man.
The report you linked to makes it clear there was a lot more to it than that.
 
Should just jail him for being a hacker and save a lot of debate - I hate those **********
 
You know , having known several people with aspergers, i would say that while it is not a 100% failsafe indicator that the person has violent or destructive tendencies, cops using it as reasonable cause to investigate a real crime is fine with me. I can say that with the people i have know, those with aspergers have a much higher percentage of people with violent and destructive tendencies ( than your average person without aspergers.)( out of 4 , three literally scare me to the point of which i stopped all contact. )

If the person has not committed crime, nothing will happen to them. And if they have, the law is doing its job.

It is like if there is a smell of pot in my car, it would not indicate 100% there is actual pot in the car, but sometimes there will be. If the person with aspergers has not committed a crime, and is mentally stable enough that they are not a danger to themselves or others, they have nothing to worry about. And if either of those conditions are not met, well that is the point of police and the mental health system, no?
 
You know , having known several people with aspergers, i would say that while it is not a 100% failsafe indicator that the person has violent or destructive tendencies, cops using it as reasonable cause to investigate a real crime is fine with me. I can say that with the people i have know, those with aspergers have a much higher percentage of people with violent and destructive tendencies ( than your average person without aspergers.)( out of 4 , three literally scare me to the point of which i stopped all contact. )

If the person has not committed crime, nothing will happen to them. And if they have, the law is doing its job.

It is like if there is a smell of pot in my car, it would not indicate 100% there is actual pot in the car, but sometimes there will be. If the person with aspergers has not committed a crime, and is mentally stable enough that they are not a danger to themselves or others, they have nothing to worry about. And if either of those conditions are not met, well that is the point of police and the mental health system, no?
This is clearly a complete misconception of Asperger.
 
It clearly says the speech got the officers' attention.
It does not say that the officers then institutionalised the man.
The report you linked to makes it clear there was a lot more to it than that.
And the speech was described as 'monotone', no?

I didn't say the responding officers institutionalized him, perhaps you should reread the OP.

What 'more' was there to it?
 
And the speech was described as 'monotone', no?

I didn't say the responding officers institutionalized him, perhaps you should reread the OP.

What 'more' was there to it?

yes the speech was a monotone. So?
You did make it sound as if the responding officers institutionalised him. Perhaps you should reread your second post, as well as the OP where you referred to a 'government entity picking people up and institutionalising them'
The more to it was made clear in the report you linked to.
 
This is clearly a complete misconception of Asperger.

How so? I am stating that a sign of a mental condition ( in this case aspergers) should be reasonable cause to search when a crime is of a violent nature, or when the crime seems to fit that of a non standard mind.

Again, if people have done nothing wrong, they will have nothing to fear.

Seriously i find people that i have met ( irl or online) with aspergers either do not find actions that are disturbing to others strange, or do not have a concept that other people being disturbed is anything bad. This may be a minor annoyance if the action is something small like singing, or whistling at length. But can be a real concern when someone self mutilates at work, or has issues separating fantasy and reality and tries to see what happens when they suffocate someone, in the middle of a party.

( yes all first had experiences. )

Again, i am not proposing we round up those with aspergers, only that should someone show signs of a mental illness, and there is a crime that would lead a police officer to believe it was committed by one with a mental illness , that it be reasonable cause. It would not effect anyone other than people that have mental illness and that have committed a crime.

But if i am incorrect in stating that those with aspergers sometimes have trouble separating fantasy from reality, and that they tend to do things in a public situation that are disturbing to others, please correct me. I would like to know where in my personal life, and in any research i have done i have gone so completely wrong.
 
So... dude acts crazy, cops take him to mental health professionals who say "we have to keep him here awhile, he's crazy", they say "hey, that's the sort of crazy we can fix", fix him, and send him on his way. And you turn it into "cops lock guy up for talking funny".
 
So... dude acts crazy, cops take him to mental health professionals who say "we have to keep him here awhile, he's crazy", they say "hey, that's the sort of crazy we can fix", fix him, and send him on his way. And you turn it into "cops lock guy up for talking funny".
Where is it stated that anyone was acting crazy?
 
How so? I am stating that a sign of a mental condition ( in this case aspergers) should be reasonable cause to search when a crime is of a violent nature, or when the crime seems to fit that of a non standard mind.

Again, if people have done nothing wrong, they will have nothing to fear.

Seriously i find people that i have met ( irl or online) with aspergers either do not find actions that are disturbing to others strange, or do not have a concept that other people being disturbed is anything bad. This may be a minor annoyance if the action is something small like singing, or whistling at length. But can be a real concern when someone self mutilates at work, or has issues separating fantasy and reality and tries to see what happens when they suffocate someone, in the middle of a party.

( yes all first had experiences. )

Again, i am not proposing we round up those with aspergers, only that should someone show signs of a mental illness, and there is a crime that would lead a police officer to believe it was committed by one with a mental illness , that it be reasonable cause. It would not effect anyone other than people that have mental illness and that have committed a crime.

But if i am incorrect in stating that those with aspergers sometimes have trouble separating fantasy from reality, and that they tend to do things in a public situation that are disturbing to others, please correct me. I would like to know where in my personal life, and in any research i have done i have gone so completely wrong.
Sorry, but you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. If this is research you've been reading I'd like to see it. Would you provide some links, please?
 
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Someone had grabbed Lamo’s backpack containing the prescription anti-depressants he’d been on since 2004, the year he pleaded guilty to hacking The New York Times. He wanted his medication back.

I couldn't help but chuckle a little at this. I have Asperger's. Life, particularly communication and interaction with others, is fairly stressful for me. If someone took my medication, I'd want it back. I'd be a wreck without it.

I could understand why the officers would want to call a doctor, however. It seems to be an issue of genuine concern. Unusual behavior, combined with known exposure to or withdrawal from prescription medications, would probably raise a red flag - at least to me. However, the fact that he was placed under "72-hour involuntary psychiatric hold" is disturbing.

In regards to sadhatter - be careful not to judge until you know all the facts. Yes, individuals with Asperger's syndrome may engage in behavior others find disturbing or strange, but only because they do not themselves find the behavior disturbing or strange. They may not even recognize that their behavior is bothersome to others. I myself had trouble recognizing when others were in pain or discomfort when I was young. Thankfully I have a psychologist for a mother, who was able to bring me to some level of normalcy. The instantaneous feelings one gets when looking at a particular expression on someone's face are the result of a process of deduction for me. Social cues form a language that individuals with Asperger's syndrome have a tenuous grasp upon, so try to muster up a bit of empathy.

Violent behavior is an entirely different story. Just because someone has Asperger's syndrome does not mean they are prone to acts of violence. I have personally never heard of self-mutilation as a syndrome of Asperger's. I myself have a very high tolerance for pain, so I may "nitpick" and end up accidentally injuring myself in a way that others would find somewhat shocking, but it's entirely accidental, of no more concern than biting at my fingernails. I have also never had difficulty in separating fantasy from reality - I'm a hobby writer, and exploring the divide is one of my passions, but I have a firm grip on reality, thank you - and don't believe that to be a major Asperger's syndrome in my own experience. It seems to be primarily a syndrome of miscommunication. Violent behavior could be attributed to some other disturbances in thinking, not Asperger's.

I could understand how Asperger's syndrome could have influenced Lamo in regards to his hacking behavior. It didn't make him more prone to commit illegal activity specifically - it prompted him to seek a challenge and master a passion. This challenge unfortunately happened to coincide with an illegal activity. His hacking attempts seem to show this - they were rarely malicious, and mostly playful, as if he was simply testing whether or not he could do it. This doesn't seem to coincide with a destructive nature. However, this doesn't mean that Lamo should be given any favors. Instead, I would advise Lamo that his skill should be channeled in a productive manner to unleash his full potential as an individual.

Lamo says it himself, succinctly.

But he [Lamo] scoffs at the notion that Asperger’s should mitigate the consequences of illegal behavior. Asperger’s might help explain his success in hacking, but not his willingness to do it, he says. “If, in fact, the diagnosis is accurate, it had zip to do with my actions at that time.”
 
In regards to sadhatter - be careful not to judge until you know all the facts. Yes, individuals with Asperger's syndrome may engage in behavior others find disturbing or strange, but only because they do not themselves find the behavior disturbing or strange. They may not even recognize that their behavior is bothersome to others.

sadhatter did say exactly that.
 

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