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Evolution answers

The ONLY thing which prevents chimps and gorillas from speaking English is the lack of voluntary control over breathing. They learn deaf signs easily.
 
icebear said:
The ONLY thing which prevents chimps and gorillas from speaking English is the lack of voluntary control over breathing. They learn deaf signs easily.
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Sure, they can express words with signs. They just don't have the linguistic ability to express deep semantics. That's what is truly required for them to be considered "speaking".
 
justintime said:
But you are wrong. Creationist are well aware animals are intelligent and in the book of Genesis Adam and Eve were fooled by a serpent. :jaw-dropp
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Pick up your has. You still have not backed up your claim, and hour example falls apart under scrutiny. Setting aside that you are saying the serpent was not Satan, you are implying that serpents can still talk. (God took awat their legs, not their voice). Hardly a step up in creationist analysis.

More importantly, that example shows the serpent is smarter than God. The serpent was right in what would happen to Adam and Eve by eating the fruit; God was wrong.

There you have it. According to you, serpents are smarter than God. Tests prove it.
 
aggle-rithm said:
We're not talking about some hypothetical test. We were discussing a specific test that you brought up.
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A test that, according to JiT, "proves" that chimps are smarter than divinely-designed humans (or at least college students- maybe JiT thinks those are two separate things). I'm not sure why he even went down this road, but it does go to show where this type of religious "reasoning" can lead you when you end up arguing against your own message.

It also goes to show that you really can't have a conversation any more intelligent than one of its participants can handle; you just end up with opposing monologues.
 
This is quite amusing. JiT and ice bear are citing things which, if true, support evolution. (I say "if true" because my understanding is that the gorilla sign language claims are questions let)
 
Garrette said:
Setting aside that you are misrepresenting the test and the results (which has been pointed out to you, so one can only assume it is intentional),
that means that chimps are smarter than people, so your god must have wanted it that way. Chimps are the chosen people.

No doubt they evolved from us.*
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Actually, the chimpanzee fossil record is almost non-existent (one fairly recent fossil, last I checked). So they must have been the special creation.
 
Garrette said:
This is quite amusing. JiT and ice bear are citing things which, if true, support evolution. (I say "if true" because my understanding is that the gorilla sign language claims are questions let)
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Gorilla sign language is a fact -- google Koko. Then we have Washoe, and Nim Chimpsky, both chimpanzees, Kanzi, a bonobo, and I think an orangutan was part of another study but I can't remember the name. This is just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others.

Oh, and there was Alex, an African Grey parrot. But I think his case has more questions on the methodology than others.

The best case for primate language capacity is Koko. She lies and tells jokes.
 
justintime said:
We know chimps can use computers.
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Chimps can be trained to perform intelligence and memory tests on specially built computers using specially designed symbolic systems. That does not equal ability to "use computers" any more than my ability to give RocketGirl horsey rides means I can run the Kentucky Derby.
 
justintime said:
And the test concluded the chimp beat the college student. The chimp therefore outperformed the college student.
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The chimp performed a given set of tests with higher scores than a human, demonstrating that the chimp has a high level of mental activity in particular ways. That doesn't mean the chimp "is smarter" than the college student. Give the chimp a driving test or put a chimp through a freshman math class and see what happens.
 
ApolloGnomon said:
Chimps can be trained to perform intelligence and memory tests on specially built computers using specially designed symbolic systems. That does not equal ability to "use computers" any more than my ability to give RocketGirl horsey rides means I can run the Kentucky Derby.
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If it looks like a computer, if it functions like a computer and if it is called a computer. Then it is a computer. :jaw-dropp
 
justintime said:
If it looks like a computer, if it functions like a computer and if it is called a computer. Then it is a computer. :jaw-dropp
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This is either intellectually lazy or intellectually dishonest. I'm feeling too intellectually lazy to list the various logical fallacies in this one sentence, but my human intelligence tells me it's more than one.
 
ApolloGnomon said:
This is either intellectually lazy or intellectually dishonest.
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This can be said about anything justintime has said.

justintime said:
And the test concluded the chimp beat the college student.
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A test which you can't seem to summarize. Could it be you haven't actually read anything about the test?
 
RocketGirl drove her friend's Barbie PowerWheels car around the block. It looks like a car, functions like a car, and is called a car. Therefor it is a car. Why won't I let her borrow it to drive to the store to buy cookies?
 
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