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evolution and chemical accidents

Joined
Dec 3, 2011
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if you have ever been to Jason Lisle (he works for the institute of creation research) 's blog you will find he keeps calling people “chemical accidents” of evolution was true, and said caring for a baby was no different then caring for a drum of oil he tried to justify it by saying “By definition, anything resulting from evolution is necessarily an accident. According to the dictionary an accident is an “unplanned event or circumstance” involving “lack of intention… rather than by design.” are these statements he make as absurd as i think they are?are they just nonsensical rhetorical devices?
 
Yes they are. It's just a rehash of the tired "without religion there's nothing stopping you from murder and rape."
 
Evolution isn't accidental. Evolution is trial and error.

And it can be argued that evolution has an intention; to either cause living things to be better able to reproduce, or die out.
 
but just out of curiosity as i am a political science and history major, what would be a sound refutation of his nonsense claim that since we are "bags of chemicals" it would be irrational to care about others because since an oil drum are "chemicals" would this be a fallacy of composition?
 
the amount of rhetorical nonsense found on his blog is astounding i am suprised that he can even get up everyday, but there is something else i like to ask, he keeps claiming the uniformity of nature as "ultimate proof" of his god, what are some secular was to justify, uniformity of nature? i have several ideas but i am uncertain of them
 
Wakawakawaka, So your mind is totally made up that what he says is wrong even though you yourself cant come up with any rebuttal on your own as to that which he says is wrong. Quite the open-minded scientist you are.
 
the amount of rhetorical nonsense found on his blog is astounding i am suprised that he can even get up everyday, but there is something else i like to ask, he keeps claiming the uniformity of nature as "ultimate proof" of his god, what are some secular was to justify, uniformity of nature? i have several ideas but i am uncertain of them

Uniformity of nature? Really? What on earth is he talking about? Has he ever actually looked at nature, I wonder, because uniformity is one thing which it doesn't obviously possess. However, if he is happening to notice that organisms seem to follow certain basic body-type patterns, then there is hope for him, because this is one of the stronger pieces of evidence for evolution. Evolution takes what it already has and works with it: minor changes to improve survival rates....it doesn't just randomly stick an extra appendage here, or sensory organ there.
 
"uniformity of nature" in what way?
Living things tend to try to keep on living, whether self aware or not.
And pass on their characteristics to a new generation before they die.
That would be "uniformity", but the shapes living things have are hardly "uniform". From ants to eagles, shape (form) follows function, and usually adequately enough to permit more generations in that form.
 
Chemical Accidents and Evolution?

Isn't that how Super Heroes are created?
 
"uniformity of nature" in what way?
The way god wants it.
Living things tend to try to keep on living, whether self aware or not.
Living things behave in ways which tend to increase their chances of living, except that ...
And pass on their characteristics to a new generation before they die.
... the life which doesn't contribute to a new generation is not worth living, hence risky behaviour in pursuit of mating opportunities and individual sacrifice if it benefits relatives.
That would be "uniformity", but the shapes living things have are hardly "uniform". From ants to eagles, shape (form) follows function, and usually adequately enough to permit more generations in that form.
God would create a uniform nature, therefore nature is uniform, proving god's existence. I think that's how it works, anyway, but as an atheist what would I know? :cool:
 
Wakawakawaka, So your mind is totally made up that what he says is wrong even though you yourself cant come up with any rebuttal on your own as to that which he says is wrong. Quite the open-minded scientist you are.


The capacity to express an idea does not necessarily follow from comprehension of the same.

When I was younger, I repeated a common sentiment in a discussion about gay marriage: "love who you love". A dissenter rebutted me with the whole fallacious "but bestiality!!!!" argument. I felt that what they had said was fundamentally unsound, but I had no idea how to respond. Does that mean I was not "open-minded"? Of course not - I just didn't have the words.
 
The capacity to express an idea does not necessarily follow from comprehension of the same.

When I was younger, I repeated a common sentiment in a discussion about gay marriage: "love who you love". A dissenter rebutted me with the whole fallacious "but bestiality!!!!" argument. I felt that what they had said was fundamentally unsound, but I had no idea how to respond. Does that mean I was not "open-minded"? Of course not - I just didn't have the words.

"When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me."

I think the observation was that www seems to be reasoning like a child here. It's rather disappointing, considering that they claim to be an adult, claim to be member of a profession dedicated to helping young adults put the ways of childhood reasoning behind them, and to have come to a discussion forum explicitly devoted to adult reasoning.

I mean, isn't it a fundamental principle of mature skepticism that, past a certain point, if you can't articulate a rational justification for your belief, then your belief is unfounded?

Is the appeal to childish thinking an argument that skeptics should ever accept, besides in children below a certain age? "I can't explain why I think Apollo was hoaxed, but my childish belief that it was hoaxed remains unshaken."

"I can't rebut your argument that contrails are just water vapor and jet engine exhaust, but my childish belief that they're mind control chemical attacks remains unshaken."

At some point, a self-proclaimed teacher, voluntarily participating on a discussion board devoted to skepticism and rational thinking, should be called on their incapacity to articulate a rational rebuttal to a claim they dispute. Appealing to their reasoning being that of a child just compounds the problem.
 
I think of evolution as a progress that builds on previous results. At the same time there are stable results that more or less merely adapt, such as bacteria which have been the same for millions of years I guess.

A multicellular organism on the other hand is a progress as a result of evolution building on the previous results of single-celled organisms.

So a human being is definitely an evolutionary progress compared to for example a rock, lol.

ETA: Bacteria are probably also a progress with evolution building on the result of protocells without DNA, but that was billions of years ago.
 
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@theprestige: You raise a good point. I suppose I am unduly sympathetic due to my own difficulties in the past. And I see that wakawakawaka stated in their last post that they "have several ideas but [are] uncertain of them".

Perhaps you should tell us your ideas, wakawakawaka? It will likely be an educational experience.
 
The way god wants it.

Living things behave in ways which tend to increase their chances of living, except that ...

... the life which doesn't contribute to a new generation is not worth living, hence risky behaviour in pursuit of mating opportunities and individual sacrifice if it benefits relatives.

God would create a uniform nature, therefore nature is uniform, proving god's existence. I think that's how it works, anyway, but as an atheist what would I know? :cool:
.
No kids. Yet life is good.
Nature IS uniform. Were it not, we'd have a devil of a time coping with random natural vagaries worse than those we have.
 
Radiotrophic fungi are the results of a chemical accident:
Radiotrophic fungi are fungi which appear to use the pigment melanin to convert gamma radiation[1] into chemical energy for growth.[2] This proposed mechanism may be similar to anabolic pathways for the synthesis of reduced organic carbon (e.g., carbohydrates) in phototrophic organisms, which capture photons from visible light with pigments such as chlorophyll whose energy is then used in photolysis of water to generate usable chemical energy (as ATP) in photophosphorylation or photosynthesis.

These were first discovered in 2007 as black molds growing inside and around the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant.

are these statements he make as absurd as i think they are?are they just nonsensical rhetorical devices?
They are nonsense. Babies have a capacity to feel pain, pleasure, satisfaction, and suffering; they have memory, personalities, and experiences; they have a first-person point of view and experience their own lives in a manner which demands kind compassionate treatment. None of these things carry over to barrels of oil. This would still be the case whether humans are evolved or otherwise.
 
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Many times at the Mall, I'll see a proud parent with the cutest little baby there is.. and tell them that... and.. "Too bad they grow up to be people." :(
 

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