Evidence that substantiates ANYTHING that happened in the Bible.

DOC said:
The found ossuary of the high priest, Caiaphus, who organized the plot to kill Jesus is some hard evidence for the truth of the bible.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4434789...ht-point-biblical-home-caiaphas/#.UOKDdXctG_I

A high priest would be well known in the area and amongst his surviving relatives and young followers for a long time. It would seriously hurt the credibility of the bible to give him such a vital role if it wasn't true.
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This also can mean that the Jesus story is at least grounded in some sort of reality. I do think that it is at least based on some real events.

On the other hand this is also saying this proves that Jesus and all the supernatural stuff is real like pointing to a Sherman Tank in a WWII museum and saying that is proof that Capt America existed. A fictional character who was placed in a real historical event.
 
DOC said:
I've mentioned the fact that there were 9 non-biblical writers who make reference to occurrences in the NT, including Christ. Also I mentioned archaeological evidence, and logical evidence. . . .(snip) . . .
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As Akhenaten has pointed out, we have asked you, repeatedly, to name these nine authors. Also, I have twice asked you the question below:

One more (double) question, DOC: Do you accept that the the three Synoptic Gospels (Mark, Matthew and Luke) shared common material, originally written in one gospel, then copied by the other two, or do you assert that all three were written independently. If you do assert they were written independently, what do you see as the motive of those who argue that one gospel was the main source for the other two?

So, DOC (Disciple of Christ), why don't you make it a resolution for the new year of 2013 to answer these questions.
 
pakeha said:
There's nothing like a reference to Rhoda-the-slave-girl Ramsey to pave the way to thinking about New Year's Day lunch plans.

And I rather thought I saw a reference to our old friends, the 9 non-biblical writers!
I'm looking forward to seeing how DOC manages to show they're relevant to the thread's discussion.
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Are these the nine non-biblical writers who seem to have non-names and also seem not to have existed?
 
DOC said:
The found ossuary of the high priest, Caiaphus, who organized the plot to kill Jesus is some hard evidence for the truth of the bible.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4434789...ht-point-biblical-home-caiaphas/#.UOKDdXctG_I

A high priest would be well known in the area and amongst his surviving relatives and young followers for a long time. It would seriously hurt the credibility of the bible to give him such a vital role if it wasn't true.
Click to expand...

Warrior1461 said:
This also can mean that the Jesus story is at least grounded in some sort of reality. I do think that it is at least based on some real events.

On the other hand this is also saying this proves that Jesus and all the supernatural stuff is real like pointing to a Sherman Tank in a WWII museum and saying that is proof that Capt America existed. A fictional character who was placed in a real historical event.
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Saying something is some hard evidence for the truth of the bible is not saying this proves the bible.
 
OCaptain said:
In essence, evidence is not proof.
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right but DOC makes implications (after all this is a thread about evidence for anything that substantiates the Bible).

I have evidence that the Mississippi River exists. That doesn't mean anything as far as whether Huck Finn traveled down it however.
 
DOC said:
I've mentioned the fact that there were 9 non-biblical writers who make reference to occurrences in the NT, including Christ. Also I mentioned archaeological evidence, and logical evidence.

And the 9 separate writers who wrote the New Testament (one who has been called a 1st rate historian by Sir William M. Ramsay) never heard of a thing called the Bible, it didn't exist at the time of they wrote their works.
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Some have asked me who were the 9 non-biblical writers who make reference to occurrences in the NT, including Christ.

Here are 11 non-biblical sources that directly or by inference give historical evidence of the existence of Jesus within 150 years of his life.

Roman historian - Tacitus

Chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian - Suetonius

Jewish historian under Emperor Vespasian - Flavius Josephus

Thallus

Roman author and administrator - Pliny the Younger

Emperor Trajan

Emperor Hadrian

The Talmud

Lucian

Mara Bar-Serapion

Phlegon

___


From the sources above here is a composite of what these non-biblical historical sources tell us:

1) Jesus lived during time of Tiberius Caesar.

2) He lived a virtuous life.

3) He was a wonder worker.

4) He had a brother {some say cousin} named James.

5) He was acclaimed to be the Messiah.

6) He was crucified under Pontius Pilate.

7) He was crucified on the eve of the Jewish Passover.

8) Darkness and an earthquake occurred when he died.

9) His disciples believe he rose from the dead.

10) His disciples were willing to die for their belief.

11) Christianity spread as far as Rome.

12) His disciples denied the Roman gods and worshiped Jesus as God.

Remember these are all facts that can be found in "Non-Christian" independent sources.

The composite above is from the book "I Don't have Enough Faith to be an Atheist" by Norman Geisler and Frank Turek. (pg. 223)
 
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DOC said:
Some have asked me who were the 9 non-biblical writers who make reference to occurrences in the NT, including Christ.

Here are 12 non-biblical sources that directly or by inference give historical evidence of the existence of Jesus within 150 years of his life.

Roman historian - Tacitus

Chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian - Suetonius

Jewish historian under Emperor Vespasian - Flavius Josephus

Thallus

Roman author and administrator - Pliny the Younger

Emperor Trajan

Emperor Hadrian

The Talmud

Anti Christian document Toledoth Jesu

Lucian

Mara Bar-Serapion

Phlegon

___


From the sources above here is a composite of what these non-biblical historical sources tell us:

1) Jesus lived during time of Tiberius Caesar.

2) He lived a virtuous life.

3) He was a wonder worker.

4) He had a brother {some say cousin} named James.

5) He was acclaimed to be the Messiah.

6) He was crucified under Pontius Pilate.

7) He was crucified on the eve of the Jewish Passover.

8) Darkness and an earthquake occurred when he died.

9) His disciples believe he rose from the dead.

10) His disciples were willing to die for their belief.

11) Christianity spread as far as Rome.

12) His disciples denied the Roman gods and worshiped Jesus as God.

Remember these are all facts that can be found in "Non-Christian" independent sources.

The composite above is from the book "I Don't have Enough Faith to be an Atheist" by Norman Geisler and Frank Turek. (pg. 223)
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I don't suppose you're going to give any details of the actual references? Because my money is on all those being references to Christians and what they believed rather than direct references to Jesus.
 
DOC: Since you have cited Chuck Missler as a source, are you - as he is - a birther? Also, do yoiu believe - as he does - that Obama is a Muslim? To see what I'm talking about, go here.
 
TimCallahan said:
DOC: Since you have cited Chuck Missler as a source, are you - as he is - a birther? Also, do yoiu believe - as he does - that Obama is a Muslim? To see what I'm talking about, go here.
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Sounds like this is an ad hom. Where did I cite a person named Chuck Missler?
 
DOC said:
Some have asked me who were the 9 non-biblical writers who make reference to occurrences in the NT, including Christ.

Here are 11 non-biblical sources that directly or by inference give historical evidence of the existence of Jesus within 150 years of his life.

Roman historian - Tacitus

Chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian - Suetonius

Jewish historian under Emperor Vespasian - Flavius Josephus

Thallus

Roman author and administrator - Pliny the Younger

Emperor Trajan

Emperor Hadrian

The Talmud

Lucian

Mara Bar-Serapion

Phlegon

___


. . . (major snip) . . .
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Regarding Tacitus: All he said was that the Christians followed Christ who was put to death for sedition by Pontius Pilate.

Regarding Suetonius: He refers, in The Twelve Caesars, to Claudius expelling the Jews from Rome because of violent disputes among them instigated by "Chrestus." This may refer to Christ, in that the chaos resulted from disputes between jews and Christians or may not. It's a highly dubious source.

All that Josephus says (since the so called Testamentum Flavianum is an outright forgery) is that James, the brother of Jesus, "who was called the Christ," was put to death by the order of Annus. The phrase, "who was called the Christ," is disputed. If it turns out to be genuine, then all we have from Josephus is that Jesus was a messianic pretender. By the way, Josephus refers to about eight different people called "Jesus" i.e. Yeshua, which means, "Yahweh is salvation," not that unusual a name among people who worshipped Yahweh.

As far as I know, Pliny the Younger only made reference to Christians, not to Jesus.

Likewise, Lucian of Somasta, in The Golden Ass, only spoke of Christians, not of Jesus.

The Talmud's account of Jesus - written, I think, ca. 400 years after his death, refers to him as a magician, a fool and a fraud, and says his mother was a hair dresser.

As to the other sources, I'll need a citation. I don't know that either Hadrian or Trajan referred to Jesus, though they might have referred to Christians.
 
DOC said:
Sounds like this is an ad hom. Where did I cite a person named Chuck Missler?
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You cited him in post # 294 on page 8 of this thread. Specifically, you said:

The Last 12 Verses of Mark
by Chuck Missler
"However, it seems that Irenaeus in 150 A.D., and also Hypolytus in the 2nd century, each quote from these disputed verses, so the documentary evidence is that they were deleted later in the Alexandrian texts, not added subsequently.)

But there is even more astonishing evidence for their original inclusion that is also profoundly instructive for broader reasons..."

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/201/

I didn't intend this as an ad hominem attack on you. As far as know, you are neither a birther nor have you, to my knowledge, argued that Obama is a Muslim. My point is that Missler is an unreliable source. I think I already pointed out that, as well as hold these wacky views, he believe flying saucer sightings are demonic apparitions and the work of the Nephilim.
 
Lowpro said:
right but DOC makes implications (after all this is a thread about evidence for anything that substantiates the Bible).

I have evidence that the Mississippi River exists. That doesn't mean anything as far as whether Huck Finn traveled down it however.
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I guess it all depends on what you want to substantiate.
 
DOC said:
Saying something is some hard evidence for the truth of the bible is not saying this proves the bible.
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