Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[amb]

Their sincerity is real just like the people who believed in Hitler were sincere. That has no relation to it being the ultimate truth.

ETA: Although I believe there is power and truth in even a partial knowledge of God which I believe the Muslim religion has -- I just don't believe they have the complete revelation of God that Christianity offers. I think this could be one of the reasons there has been so much suffering in the Muslim world.

But their revelation is much later than the Christian one. Mohammad lived hundreds of years after Jesus' supposed existence. Perhaps their revelation supersedes Christianity. Perhaps God IS a tyrant after all.

 

[Mojo]

I have made you an avatar that may be of use at some point in the next 4-5 weeks. Hope you like it (I did say the prize would be low value!) .

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=2&pictureid=2384[/qimg]

Excellent!

ETA: although the final is actually on the 28th. On the 20th I'll be at Roots Hall, which isn't quite so impressive. Might get a laugh out of the Aussie contingent though.

 

[Lothian]

Excellent!

ETA: although the final is actually on the 28th. On the 20th I'll be at Roots Hall, which isn't quite so impressive. Might get a laugh out of the Aussie contingent though.

Oops.

I am not sure Roots Hall is such an iconic image so rather than changing the background I amended the date.

 

[Belz...]

If you wrote 13 chapters (Paul wrote 13 biblical books) in the greatest selling book of all time and were called a spiritual genius in a religious encyclopedia like Paul was, I might take a closer look at your claim.

So facts aren't important to you, only popularity and prestige ?

 

[Belz...]

I'm glad you realize his book was fiction, But people like Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama don't believe the bible is fiction.

Who cares about what they THINK ? It's only about what they can prove.

They both can't be right -- The law of Non Contradiction.

Precisely, and how do you tell which one, if any, is true ?

Their sincerity is real just like the people who believed in Hitler were sincere. That has no relation to it being the ultimate truth.

Oh, so that only works for your religion, Jimmy Carter's and Barack Obama's ?

 

[Belz...]

Of course this is false, here are some that are not circular reasoning:

They are still useless:

1)There are 9 non-Christians sources for Christ and or Christianity within 150 years of his birth similar to the 9 non-Christian sources for the life of Tiberius Caesar, the Roman Emperor at the time of Christ.

It's good that you add "christ" and "christianity". Had you just said "Christ", you'd have zero.

2) There are around 5000 manuscripts of the New Testament compared to 7 for Plato and 20 for famous Roman historian Tacitus.

And since they're all copies of one another, how does that help ?

3) Thomas Jefferson (although not a mainline Christian) said the teachings of Jesus are the most moral and sublime he has ever read.

He had the right to his wrong opinion.

4)Thousands of lives have been drastically changed for the better by Christianity.

A few billions have been changed for the worse. You lose.

5)Christianity grew rapidly by peaceful means in the brutal Roman Empire.

Which, by your own admission that "Their sincerity is real just like the people who believed in Hitler were sincere. That has no relation to it being the ultimate truth", means nothing.

6)Gospel writer Luke showed remarkable attention to detail verified through historical and archaelogical evidence and was called one of the world's greatest historians with regard to things that can be proven by historical and archaeological evidence.

He has been called one of the world's greatest historian by YOU, more often than by the sum total of anybody else who's claimed this.

 

[Akhenaten]

Oops.

I am not sure Roots Hall is such an iconic image so rather than changing the background I amended the date.

Revisionist!


Although since it's a future event, umm . . .


I got nothin'

 

[TSR]

I am so pissed off that I can't find my "Chronicles of Narnia" box set paperbacks. I loved those books, and wanted to read them again. The only other books from my childhood that have similar meaning are "The Great Brain" series.

.
With apologies to twinstead, the Great Brain ROCKS!

Never met anyone else who knew them, you're my new bestest friend!
.

 

[zooterkin]

C.S. Lewis also wrote some rather unique science fiction stories (Out of the Silent Planet, et. al.). He had some very odd ideas as to what scientists do and think, and I really, really, really wish I could find the letter Arthur C. Clarke wrote to C.S. Lewis regarding his misconceptions. It was truly classic.

Interesting; I did a quick search, and couldn't find the letter, though it seems to have been published in a book, From Narnia to a Space Odyssey: The War of Ideas Between Arthur C. Clarke and C. S. Lewis. I found a couple of reviews, which include some text from the letter, here and here.

 

[dafydd]

Indeed

Why is this thread more than three posts long?

Because we like watching Doc make a prat of himself.

 

[tsig]

I care what a knighted respected archaeologist and former skeptic who spent 15 years digging and doing research in biblical lands (Sir William M. Ramsay) says about gospel writer Luke. If you don't, that is your right.

How could such a paragon of virtue be wrong?

If you'd have thrown "sainted in there you would have had me DOC but just a "knighted respected " guy (who loved other men) well, you just can't expect I'd give up baby barbeque for him.

 

[kmortis]

How could such a paragon of virtue be wrong?

If you'd have thrown "sainted in there you would have had me DOC but just a "knighted respected " guy (who loved other men) well, you just can't expect I'd give up baby barbeque for him.

Dry rub or sauce mop?

 

[tsig]

If you wrote 13 chapters (Paul wrote 13 biblical books) in the greatest selling book of all time and were called a spiritual genius in a religious encyclopedia like Paul was, I might take a closer look at your claim.

So the truth of a claim lies in the character of the claimant and not the fact content?

 

[kmortis]

So the truth of a claim lies in the character of the claimant and not the fact content?

Well, yeah. Don't you know that EVERY song ever written by your favorite band is a frelling masterpiece, powerful enough to bring tears to the eyes of even the hardest of hearts? No matter that their most recent scribblings was a recording of a retarded cat strolling across a Hammond organ that's going on the fritz. Because you like them, every note is pure, unadulterated genius.

 

[tsig]

Dry rub or sauce mop?

They're both good. I have this on the authority of the greatest living chef.

Gordon Ramsey!!

 

[Elizabeth I]

They're both good. I have this on the authority of the greatest living chef.

Gordon Ramsey!!

Ooo-er! Coincidence? You decide...

 

[tsig]

Well, yeah. Don't you know that EVERY song ever written by your favorite band is a frelling masterpiece, powerful enough to bring tears to the eyes of even the hardest of hearts? No matter that their most recent scribblings was a recording of a retarded cat strolling across a Hammond organ that's going on the fritz. Because you like them, every note is pure, unadulterated genius.

Why do you hate cats? And why are you accusing me of having a hard heart?
The greatest musician of all time endorsed my band so it's obviously true that my band is the best.There are many books written about melody and harmony so I'm right\\TB* mode

* True Believer

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Dry rub or sauce mop?

Sweet Baby Rays - basted multiple times while the ribs are being smoked

 

[tsig]

Ooo-er! Coincidence? You decide...

Clearly not because we know that everything is mapped out in the mind of god and "not even a sparrow falls" but god knows about it. He planned it this way so the name Ramsey would have more authority thereby leading us to Sir Ramsey and then to the the eternal flame* of God's love//TB mode.

*flame-cooking: the connection is obvious to an enlightened mind.

 

[Hokulele]

Interesting; I did a quick search, and couldn't find the letter, though it seems to have been published in a book, From Narnia to a Space Odyssey: The War of Ideas Between Arthur C. Clarke and C. S. Lewis. I found a couple of reviews, which include some text from the letter, here and here.

I had read it in some magazine umpteen years ago (I think it was an article that was a bio of Clarke), and although Clarke did sound a bit full of himself, it was neat to see him tackle someone much older and more established than himself with such passion.