Eugenics supporters?

[Tokenconservative]

How is Darwinism a belief?

Ultimately, what religionists will rely upon is existentialism and ultimately, EVERTHING boils down to belief.

Clearly, "Darwinism" (Evolutionary science) is based in the standards of observable fact, far more than any religion, which are in the end, are all based on the circular argument that (my) scripture says that it is telling the truth about the truths it is telling.

Science on the other hand must offer physical evidence. This is why so many Christians have such a hard time with the fossil evidence of creatures that came before. The funniest argument I've heard from them, and one they use on children is: how do the scientists KNOW these fossils are what they say they are...were the scientists THERE when apatosaurus roamed the earth!?

Tokie

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

That is not really what Eugenics is/was all about...as a German, you have probably not been permitted to expose yourself to this as it's wrapped up in a very shameful part of your history (I know they soft-sell that whole 1936-1945 thing in Germany..when everyone was on holiday).

Eugenics was not developed as a means of ridding people of genetic disease as we define it today (developed world) but rather, selecting for "desired traits." This very much appealed to a certain group who began rising into power in Germany circa late 1920s. Eugenicists would LOVE what medical science could--if permitted-- do in that regard, today. Look at how ultrasound is used in India: if it's a girl, she's aborted.

Tokie

You are forgetting that Germany used the ideas developed in America.

 

[Tokenconservative]

Rae West. I just found the text of the writings I was referring too there.
writing.

Wasn't it Rae West who said to a pterodon: "come up and see me sometime"?

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

And just as importantly, how come we hear so little about Kelvinists, Fultonists, and Foucaultists?

And whatever happened to the "ether"?

One day it made up most of the universe, the next day...poof!

Tokie

 

[CFLarsen]

You are forgetting that Germany used the ideas developed in America.

What ideas?

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

What ideas?

Eugenics

 

[CFLarsen]

Eugenics

Eugenics is far older than the US. The term itself was coined by Galton - a Brit, but existed far earlier.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Eugenics is far older than the US. The term itself was coined by Galton - a Brit, but existed far earlier.

You mean the cousin of Darwin?

 

[volatile]

(I know they soft-sell that whole 1936-1945 thing in Germany)

I see I can add "The German Education System" to my ever-growing list of "Things TokenConservative thinks he knows about but actually doesn't".

"Holocaust Education in Germany"

"The treatment of the Nazi period in all its aspects -- Hitler's rise to power; his establishment of a dictatorship in Germany; the abolition of the rule of law; the persecution of all kinds of political opponents; the racially motivated persecution of the Jews, culminating in the Holocaust; the reticence and opposition of German citizens; and, Germany's instigation of World War II -- is compulsory teaching matter at all types of schools in Germany and at all levels of education. The Holocaust is treated as the most important aspect of the period of Nazi rule."

Emphasis mine. See how actually researching things before spouting them helps avoid one seeming, and indeed being, ignorant?

I'm getting the impression that everything you believe about everything is based on a bizarre mixture of hear-say, speculation, Fox News and things you overheard some drunk bloke singing about down the pub.

 

[CFLarsen]

You mean the cousin of Darwin?

Yes, of course. What of it? Does that invalidate the evidence of eugenic ideas before Galton?

 

[Ladewig]

And whatever happened to the "ether"?

I can answer that. Once the scientists disowned their fair-haired boy, he wandered alone until the woos adopted him. Now he can be seen in feature films such as "What the (@**& Do We Know?"

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Yes, of course. What of it? Does that invalidate the evidence of eugenic ideas before Galton?

This shows that eugenics now had scientific backing in evolution for its propagation.

 

[Phaedrus74]

This shows that eugenics now had scientific backing in evolution for its propagation.

And if they hadn't they would have coopted a different theory like, let me think...

Oh yeah!

The Organic Theory of State

Very popular in the late 19th and early 20th century inspired on the medical sciences.

[Aside: Darwinism is the belief that evolution is the absolute truth, proper scientists believe it's merely the best mechanism for describing the origin of species]

 

[CFLarsen]

This shows that eugenics now had scientific backing in evolution for its propagation.

What does that have to do with the ideas being developed in America?

 

[thaiboxerken]

So now, not only is evolution "just a theory" but it's also a vast conspiracy theory with racist motives......

Creationists are something else.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I think you should read Huxley's book.

Brave new world? I have. That isn't the sort of society I'm imagining.

Discrimination is the tool used to hire today and will be in the future.

Discrimination isn't always a bad thing. Employeers are expected to discriminate against the incapable and ignorant people. The problem is discriminating against people who you don't like for one reason or another regardless of their 'abilities'.

Do you discriminate between tomatoes that you are choosing to buy?

Yes.

There is nothing wrong with discrimination.

Unless it's based on preconceptions.

It is natural.

See; it is amusing how words are twisted to exhibit emotion beyond their meaning.

This is propaganda!

No, Discrimination isn't always bad. However if everyone knew that there were a large group of genetic "supermen" who could do amazing things mentally and physically then employers would surely pick them over average joe's even if their actual abilities weren't that great above some of the smarter or stronger normal humans, thus in some cases these people would be selected over normal people who happen to be smarter or stronger than these genetically altered people.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

What does that have to do with the ideas being developed in America?

I mis-spoke; the idea was cultivated in America was the meaning I meant to convey.

 

[Morrigan]

Dustin, who would flip your burgers and clean your toilets in your world?

 

[CFLarsen]

Brave new world? I have. That isn't the sort of society I'm imagining.

You miss the point of Huxley's all-Alpha society. It didn't break down because the Alphas knew they had been genetically designed to be Alphas. It broke down because nobody wanted to take on the more menial jobs that exist in any society.

I mis-spoke; the idea was cultivated in America was the meaning I meant to convey.

The idea was cultivated in other places as well.

What was your point in singling out the US?

 

[Tokenconservative]

Then allow me to clarify: People have a legal right to be a-holes. However, that does not mean that the mere belief that various ethnic groups are inherently inferior to others is not problematic within societies. I feel that the best means for addressing racist ideas is education, not incarceration.

Now might I ask that you respond to one of my questions?



The intention of whom? I've seen a lot of racists employing pseudo science to try to do so. But modern anthropology, armed with more complete evidence than ever before in the form of the human genome itself, has on the whole exposed the idea of race as a vague human construct with no grounding in science.

Pardon me for butting in, but you are either not American or Western European (including Can/Aus/NZ) or have simply not been paying very keen attention to how our society is going over these past 25 years or so.

Let me ask you about your blanket statement that people have a "right" to be ********...um, does the term "political correctness" ring a bell with you?

This is why I am so roundly attacked in here. Most of those who post in here are liberals, and a great many of those are far, FAR left-liberals (the kind of people who think CBS and the NYTimes are "rightwing, military-industrial" propaganda mills) and they are loathe to allow the very existence of someone (anyone) who tells the truth, and get the torches and pitchforks when that someone is lifting up the rocks and shining the bright light of truth on the scuttling slimy tentacled creatures that are their ideologies.

Of course, what they SAY is "well, that harrump, TC fellow never provides a link--LIIIIINNKKKKKK!!!--and um, therefore we, harruph, believe that that is more than ample proof that his is a HERETIC WHO NEEDS TO BE BURNED AT THE STAKE!!!! ...er, that is to ahem, harrumph, say, someone who deserves to be the target of our ire...."

Tokie