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Split Thread Epstein murdered

Epstein could have stuck it out and tried his luck in the court.
Exactly--so why didn't he? The ostensible reason he got a great deal the first time around was that he was an informant. That is what the people who gave him the deal said at the time. If prosecutors were more than willing to prosecute him, why would they be reluctant to go after an even bigger prize if they could? He could have used his inside knowledge to gain all sorts of special treatment, even if it was just a cozier cell. And evidently, his family and lawyers seem to think it is quite odd that he didn't stick around to "try his luck"
 
Exactly--so why didn't he? The ostensible reason he got a great deal the first time around was that he was an informant. That is what the people who gave him the deal said at the time. If prosecutors were more than willing to prosecute him, why would they be reluctant to go after an even bigger prize if they could? He could have used his inside knowledge to gain all sorts of special treatment, even if it was just a cozier cell. And evidently, his family and lawyers seem to think it is quite odd that he didn't stick around to "try his luck"
I've heard that in prisons, honor among thieves deems that the pedophiles are seen as the worst possible criminals and are treated in a violent manner by other criminals. Epstein might have been being threatened at the very least. And if he knew he was guilty, didn't want to wait around to see how bad things would really get.
 
Trump certainly has no interest in anyone looking at Epstein, given his very close connections and that of his associates.
Doesn't mean he got him murdered, but probably means that there is more evidence of Trump messing around with underage girls to be found - even more than we already have.
 
Just because Patel doesn't think it was a conspiracy doesn't suddenly make it a conspiracy. Others already laid out the right-wing CT about Hillary et al, but in the end the simple fact is if there was a conspiracy it was that Epstein was left unsupervised with the hope he would end things. That's it. Epstein could have stuck it out and tried his luck in the court.
The chances of Epstein's death are pretty much infinitessimal. The only reason they're not nil is that we don't have direct video showing him completing the suicide.
 
The chances of Epstein's death are pretty much infinitessimal. The only reason they're not nil is that we don't have direct video showing him completing the suicide.
I assume you mean 'homicide' and not death, since that is 100%. ;).
Too bad not just one, but two cameras failed at an inconvenient time.
There were certainly other cameras that would have recorded anyone coming in or out of the location--those would be important too, and I
haven't heard whether those recordings have been provided to anyone.
 
I assume you mean 'homicide' and not death, since that is 100%. ;).
Too bad not just one, but two cameras failed at an inconvenient time.
There were certainly other cameras that would have recorded anyone coming in or out of the location--those would be important too, and I
haven't heard whether those recordings have been provided to anyone.

Note that security cameras recording nothing of interest is the baseline.

No one reports on this, because it would just be noise.

Headlines like: One Billion Security Cameras Show Nothing of Interest!!!

(Hmm... Sounds like an Onion article.)
 
Can anyone explain to me why certain people are so obsessed with this horrible person? Like, what compels someone to take a known child molester and endlessly obsess over whether he committed suicide or was murdered, going so far as to spam 'Epstein didn't kill himself' in all sorts of totally unrelated comment threads?

Also, I don't know what Abooga's avatar is supposed to be, but I know what my brain instinctively interprets it as every time I see it (don't know if I can go into details without breaking forum rules, but it looks like a you-know-what and a you-know-what and they're you-know-what-ing), and that just makes the posts obsessing over the fate of a known serial sex offender feel even more bizarre.
 
Can anyone explain to me why certain people are so obsessed with this horrible person? Like, what compels someone to take a known child molester and endlessly obsess over whether he committed suicide or was murdered, going so far as to spam 'Epstein didn't kill himself' in all sorts of totally unrelated comment threads?
Because he was so intimate with so many powerful people and he was a pretty open pedophile and trafficker, that the assumption is he has a ton of dirt on a ton of high profile figures who were also into his repulsive interests.

Nobody really cares about him, per se. They care about what he knew, that we might still find out.
Also, I don't know what Abooga's avatar is supposed to be, but I know what my brain instinctively interprets it as every time I see it (don't know if I can go into details without breaking forum rules, but it looks like a you-know-what and a you-know-what and they're you-know-what-ing), and that just makes the posts obsessing over the fate of a known serial sex offender feel even more bizarre.
Which is a whole 'nuther story, and hopefully unrelated.
 
Also, I don't know what Abooga's avatar is supposed to be, but I know what my brain instinctively interprets it as every time I see it (don't know if I can go into details without breaking forum rules, but it looks like a you-know-what and a you-know-what and they're you-know-what-ing), and that just makes the posts obsessing over the fate of a known serial sex offender feel even more bizarre.
It's a logo that made the rounds of the internet about fifteen years ago because it looked like what you think it looks like. It's supposed to be a Buddhist temple with the sun rising behind it.

But that's off-topic.
 
Even after you explained it to me it took me a minute to see it. Thanks anyway.
 
So all available evidence points to Epstein murdering himself, too bad there isn't a word one could use to describe such an event.
Well, no--there is very little evidence period--which is kind of why people "obsess" over the case. Cause, you know, given that he was a *very* high profile criminal who 'potentially' had dirt on a lot of very well known people, like Princes and Presidents and billionaires, the objective assumption (and one which I can verify from my career as a criminal defense attorney) is that he would have cameras trained on him at all times, and would never, ever, be left by himself in a jail cell. This is just common knowledge. So, I dunno bout you , but I find it just a wee, just a wee bit suspicious that there is no real documentation of his alleged suicide, not one iota of evidence. There is an autopsy--that is it! And, not surprisingly, the autopsy was not conclusive. His death could have been a suicide or homicide--his injuries and lack of injuries was basically consistent with either scenario. I never accept any theory without evidence, so I do not and will not insist he was murdered. But I certainly would not at all be remotely surprised if he was. So I find it kind of humorous that people brush off the suspicious elements and basically conclude "nothing to see here, move along..."
 
How is this not incompetence? Show me where the guards all bought new cars, or took vacations in the Bahamas following Epstein's demise.
This isn't a reasonable request. We don't have visibility imto their finances. (Do we even know who they are?)

And cameras failing? Welcome to the fun that is the United States Government maintenance system
Far too glib.

Epstein was a billionaire looking at spending the rest of his life in prison, why wouldn't he commit suicide?
Because in general, people are highly adverse to dying.
 
This isn't a reasonable request. We don't have visibility imto their finances. (Do we even know who they are?)


Far too glib.


Because in general, people are highly adverse to dying.
There was an investigation ordered by the judge overseeing the case. The guard's finances were reviewed, and most federal guards, and law enforcement are subject to internal affairs audits at any time, for any reason. If the guards were paid off we'd know. If the guards bought a new boat, built a man-cave, went on vacation at a Sandals, bought a new car all without a noticeable/trackable income source it would stand out. This is how other corrupt guards and agents have been caught.

And it may be glib, but the mythology of the Federal Government's ruthless efficiency has been a two-centuries old paper tiger. If 75% of technology and equipment is working at any US Government facility on any given day it classifies as a miracle. And this spans everyone from the IRS, FBI, and DoD, to Fish & Game, and Department of Agriculture. The system is the system, and important things you'd think would get priority for repair or upgrade are on a very long list.

Case in Point: Newark Airport. You'd think air traffic control systems would be a priority, right? The US has been at least 20 years behind in technology upgrades since 1980. Yes, this is a large-scale system that requires an act of Congress, but you'd think risking hundreds of lives every day would motivate changes. Needless to say, a camera system in a federal jail, even in NYC, is going to take a while to get fixed.

As for Epstein being adverse to dying, he obviously thought it was the better option.
 
...

Because in general, people are highly adverse to dying.
Yet over 49,000 of them committed suicide in the US in 2023 (latest I could find), for assorted reasons.

Hell, even I knew three people who killed themselves in the last twenty years or so - two co-workers, over 'affairs of the heart', and my nephew for reasons we never found out.
 
The guard's finances were reviewed, and most federal guards, and law enforcement are subject to internal affairs audits at any time, for any reason. If the guards were paid off we'd know
Well, not really. You assume we would know, but without access to the alleged audits neither of us has any idea. I know a few people have tried to look into their private lives and have been unsuccessful getting details. I would agree that it would require a conspiracy to keep any significant pay off hidden, and there is no real evidence of that conspiracy, but that does not mean it does not exist. Hiding money is not that difficult, even someone like the POTUS can successfully do that despite all eyes of the world being on him.
It is also an assumption that it had to be a big monetary payoff, when it really didn't have to be that. There are non-monetary ways of bribing someone, and there are also ways to blackmail someone that would not be recorded. And sure, that is highly speculative, but so is the idea that "we would know" if they were paid off. All we *really* know is that two guards falsified records so that they were supposedly checking on Epstein every 30 minutes when in fact he was not checked on for 8 hours.
And it may be glib, but the mythology of the Federal Government's ruthless efficiency has been a two-centuries old paper tiger. If 75% of technology and equipment is working at any US Government facility on any given day it classifies as a miracle. And this spans everyone from the IRS, FBI, and DoD, to Fish & Game, and Department of Agriculture. The system is the system, and important things you'd think would get priority for repair or upgrade are on a very long list.
I agree with you there! I have worked in governmental jobs most of my life, (IRS, DOC, NOAA, public defenders office etc) and that is a fair assessment. However..and this is a big 'However', that is a general observation and it overlooks the facts of this specific case, which I addressed in my previous comment. Epstein was a *big* deal to this correctional facility. Everyone who worked there knew all eyes were on them. I know from experience that all that inefficiency is suddenly spotlighted on occasions like that one. That is why a sign saying "IT IS MANDATORY" that Epstein be guarded at all times was posted outside his cell at the time of his death. They would have pulled no punches in ensuring that he was watched like a hawk. So why wasn't he? Security cameras could have easily been checked, so why did not one but two inconveniently fail at the wrong time? Why was Epstein left unattended for 8 hours? Why was he alone in a cell when it was *mandated* that he have a cellmate? Why did not one but two guards fail to follow what they knew were monumentally important requirements? Any one of these questions could be perhaps shrugged off, it is when they add up that it becomes suspicious. Not conclusive of a conspiracy of course, but also not worthy of being dsimissed as just the usual inefficiency.
As for Epstein being adverse to dying, he obviously thought it was the better option.
You are making the assumption that it was a suicide. I'd say that is a reasonable assumption--honestly if I had to put money on one or the other I'd bet on suicide being more likely. But I disagree it was obvious. At least a couple Drs who interviewed him were convinced he was not suicidal. His family definitely believed he was not. He had gotten a sweetheart deal with his last conviction, and probably could have used his inside knowledge to obtain some sort of favorable treatment with the new case. Really the only evidence that points at him being suicidal is the circumstantial evidence that he signed a new will shortly before his death. But there is nothing obvious about the conclusion that he killed himself. Look at how different forensic experts view the autopsy--some say it clearly shows sucide, some say just as adamantly that it supports homicide.
Not obvious to me certainly. I do find it somewhat suspicious that he managed to hang himself with a piece of cloth hanging a mere 4 feet from the floor, seems like a pretty inefficient way to hang yourself but I aint an expert on the forensics...
 
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First off, the only real crime is I didn't get to beat Epstein to death myself, just so we're all clear about my feelings here.

Epstein was into autoerotic asphyxiation, and would have known how to improvise a noose. He would also know basic safety factors to prevent snapping his own neck, conversely he'd know how to snap his own neck if needed. Autoerotic asphyxiation is something that can be done alone, all you need is a doorknob, closet hanger rack, or in this case a bed post.

The summation and link to the report on his death is here:

https://oig.justice.gov/news/doj-oi...-and-supervision-jeffrey-epstein-metropolitan

This is the same facility that successfully delivered El Chapo to trial, and kept him unharmed. Yes, there are a ton of red flags. But give me something other than allegations. Give me a name, someone guards, and the ADA for NY is too scared to face down. The client list remains under wraps in spite of two Administration changes since his death. Why no focus on that? It's an actual conspiracy right there out in the open.
 
In a population of 340 million. Epstein was almost 33 times more likely to identify as transgender, than he was to commit suicide.
That's fair math, although I would go with 11 times, given that the inmate population is roughly 3 times more likely to commit suicide.
 

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