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Split Thread Epstein murdered

Abooga said:
I fail to see mmuch difference between a US government black op and a Russian one, both would involve dozens of people. In Russia it would be easier to pull, but it´s not like the US is a perfect transparent paradise where nothing bad ever happens and everyone is incorruptible and fair...
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Wait! You think the US Government killed Epstein? When you said "powerful people" earlier, I thought you were talking about about powerful private citizens who stood to face prosecution if Epstein squealed.
 
Abooga said:
From wikipedia:

When Epstein was placed in the special housing unit, the jail informed the Justice Department that he would have a cellmate, and that a guard would look into the cell every 30 minutes. These procedures were not followed on the night of his death.[290][285][291] On August 9, 2019, Epstein's cellmate was transferred out, but no one took his place.[292] Later in the evening, contrary to the jail's normal procedure, Epstein was not checked every 30 minutes.[290][285][291] The two guards who were assigned to check his jail unit that night fell asleep and did not check on him for about three hours; the guards falsified related records.[285][293] Two cameras in front of Epstein's cell also malfunctioned that night.[16]

If you believe all these to be coincidences, I´d like you to meet my Nigerian friend, he´s a prince and needs some money to get out of the country, then he´ll make you rich.
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Forget cponspiracy, it isn't even coincidence...just happenstance....happens all the time. And your bias wants to weave a tapestry of fiction around it.
 
Susheel said:
Forget cponspiracy, it isn't even coincidence...just happenstance....happens all the time. And your bias wants to weave a tapestry of fiction around it.
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Too many coincidences. When his roommate tried to kill him on the 25th of July, the cctv video was erased "by mistake". Another coincidence. ¿or is that prison run by the mentally handicapped?
 
Abooga said:
Too many coincidences. When his roommate tried to kill him on the 25th of July, the cctv video was erased "by mistake". Another coincidence. ¿or is that prison run by the mentally handicapped?
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All that is basically ******** dreamed out of the orifii of conspiuracy purveyors.
 
Abooga said:
From wikipedia:

When Epstein was placed in the special housing unit, the jail informed the Justice Department that he would have a cellmate, and that a guard would look into the cell every 30 minutes. These procedures were not followed on the night of his death.
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OK then, lets read on...


Abooga said:
On August 9, 2019, Epstein's cellmate was transferred out, but no one took his place.
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Do you have evidence that this was arranged by your claimed conspirators?


Abooga said:
Later in the evening, contrary to the jail's normal procedure, Epstein was not checked every 30 minutes.
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Do you have evidence that this was arranged by your claimed conspirators?


Abooga said:
The two guards who were assigned to check his jail unit that night fell asleep and did not check on him for about three hours
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Do you have evidence that the guards were paid/bribed/coerced to look the other way?


Abooga said:
the guards falsified related records.
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And these powerful mastermind conspirators of yours are so devious and so cunning that they allowed the falsity of those records to be detected?


Abooga said:
Two cameras in front of Epstein's cell also malfunctioned that night.
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Do you have evidence that these cameras were sabotaged by those acting on behalf of your claimed conspirators?


Abooga said:
If you believe all these to be coincidences, I´d like you to meet my Nigerian friend, he´s a prince and needs some money to get out of the country, then he´ll make you rich.
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It doesn't matter whether they are co-incidences or not. What matters is, do you have any evidence that any of the items you have mentioned happened as a result of arrangement, bribery or sabotage by people acting on behalf of two or more of your alleged conspirators. If not, then you've got nothing.

Maybe the jail was badly run with poorly maintained equipment, sloppy procedures and slack staff and guards. Many people die in police custody every year, almost always as a result of incompetence or negligence.
 
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smartcooky said:
Wait! You think the US Government killed Epstein? When you said "powerful people" earlier, I thought you were talking about about powerful private citizens who stood to face prosecution if Epstein squealed.
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Corruption is rife in governments all over the world, but most people are quite unaware of it. If Epstein had delicate information of some of the most powerful people of the world I´m sure they had ways to off him, and the prison warden would be the ideal person to buy. How otherwise would you make sure to have all these "mistakes" made which led to his death? The cameras, the placing a murderer in his cell for the first attempt etc. The warden is a prime suspect.
 
Abooga said:
Yes, the same as there is no evidence that Putin ordered the murder of his political adversaries. No hard evidence. As it often happen in conspiracies, which by definition strive for secrecy.
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"There's no evidence because it's a conspiracy" is not evidence. It is characteristic of conspiracy theories though.
 
smartcooky said:
OK then, lets read on...



Do you have evidence that this was arranged by your claimed conspirators?



Do you have evidence that this was arranged by your claimed conspirators?



Do you have evidence that the guards were paid/bribed/coerced to look the other way?



And these powerful mastermind conspirators of yours are so devious and so cunning that they allowed the falsity of those records to be detected?



Do you have evidence that these cameras were sabotaged by those acting on behalf of your claimed conspirators?



It doesn't matter whether they are co-incidences or not. What matters is, do you have any evidence that any of the items you have mentioned happened as a result of arrangement, bribery or sabotage by people acting on behalf of two or more of your alleged conspirators. If not, then you've got nothing.

Maybe the jail was badly run with poorly maintained equipment, sloppy procedures and slack staff and guards. Many people die in police custody every year, almost always as a result of incompetence or negligence.
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Do you have evidence that my Nigerian friend is not a prince? Please send the money to account number 555999555...
 
Mojo said:
"There's no evidence because it's a conspiracy" is not evidence. It is characteristic of conspiracy theories though.
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It´s indeed a characteristic of conspiracies to be secretive. By definition. One can´t apply the same rules as, say, finding evidence for the theory of gravity. It reminds me of the way scientists would get fooled by con artists, after all they had evidence in front of their eyes of what was happening... and Randi would have to come and look for the foul play. In Epstein´s death foul play is hardly unlikely, You can´t just say "but where is the evidence" like those naive scientists that were conned by Uri Geller...
 
Abooga said:
It´s indeed a characteristic of conspiracies to be secretive. By definition. One can´t apply the same rules as, say, finding evidence for the theory of gravity.
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Makes it convenient for self-important purveyors of conspiracy theories that allows them to mistake fantasies for fact.

Abooga said:
It reminds me of the way scientists would get fooled by con artists, after all they had evidence in front of their eyes of what was happening... and Randi would have to come and look for the foul play. In Epstein´s death foul play is hardly unlikely, You can´t just say "but where is the evidence" like those naive scientists that were conned by Uri Geller...
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Wait...you are aware that your "scientists" were fooled by the con artist exactly because they did not adhere to the requirements of what would be considered evidence, right? Before you go around casting aspersions, maybe you need to draft your arguments and read through them to make sure you are not inadvertantly arguing against your premise.
 
smartcooky said:
Maybe the jail was badly run with poorly maintained equipment, sloppy procedures and slack staff and guards. Many people die in police custody every year, almost always as a result of incompetence or negligence.
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Something smells here. Is it just the normal stench of incompetence and negligence, or something else? I'm hoping it's the former, because then something might get done about it.

Abooga said:
Well, you could have working CCTV cameras, guards checking every half hour, like the law mandates... not put him in the same cell with another violent inmate who could kill him, like the one who tried... but they did the opposite of these three things.
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No, you don't understand. You see, they do that stuff all the time, not just with high-profile inmates who could take a lot of people down with them if it got to trial.

As smartcooky said, many people die in police custody every year. Once we see the records showing that this particular prison regularly achieves "a perfect storm of screw-ups" as William Barr described it, we can all relax.
 
Susheel said:
Makes it convenient for self-important purveyors of conspiracy theories that allows them to mistake fantasies for fact.



Wait...you are aware that your "scientists" were fooled by the con artist exactly because they did not adhere to the requirements of what would be considered evidence, right? Before you go around casting aspersions, maybe you need to draft your arguments and read through them to make sure you are not inadvertantly arguing against your premise.
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No, a con artist can fool a normal scientific test. Science is normally done in a way in which you don´t expect, for example gravity to be trying to deceive you, lab rats are supposed to be the ones tested, not the other way around, a la " Hitchhikers to the Galaxy" ... etc. Randi used to improve on the "normal" testing by eliminating the possibility of foul play. The only similarity between Randi´s methods and normal science is in the way he tested to avoid unconscious bias, which was sometimes at play (dowsing for example), but we´re talking about foul play here.
 
There are certainly questions that need answering about Epstein's death, but for my money, one of them is, 'If Epstein was murdered in prison, why didn't Maxwell suffer a nasty accident before her trial?'
 
While the fact that "Epstein Didn't Kill Himself" was already meme-status before Epstein actually killed himself is at least a little odd, like all conspiracy theories it just doesn't make sense.

Why then? Why only after he was back in the news and his death was guaranteed to arouse suspicion? Why didn't the New World Order Rand Corporation Grey Aliens whoever just arraign for Epstein to slip in the shower or have a traffic accident on a busy news day so it got buried on page 10 at any point in the decade between him being in the news? Why wait until every body is talking about someone to kill them?
 
Abooga, your speculation just doesn't convince me. It's certainly plausible, up to a point. It's the kind of thing we'd certainly expect from a proper conspiracy of the rich and powerful to cover up their evil deeds. But there's no smoking gun. There's no clear link between hypothetical beneficiaries and known capabilities. The chain of evidence that establishes method and opportunity simply does not exist. If you believe he was killed, fine. I won't attempt to convince you otherwise - mainly because I don't know, one way or the other. But I think you are wrong to chastise people who don't share your belief.

I think if you are arguing in good faith, you have to admit that agnosticism is a reasonable position to take based on the evidence currently available.
 
Abooga said:
It´s indeed a characteristic of conspiracies to be secretive.
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That isn't what I said. I said that it is a characteristic of conspiracy theories that a lack of evidence is presented as a characteristic of conspiracies, and therefore at least consistent with the conspiracy theory.
 
Abooga said:
Well, you could have working CCTV cameras, guards checking every half hour, like the law mandates... not put him in the same cell with another violent inmate who could kill him, like the one who tried... but they did the opposite of these three things. If I had to put a score to conspiracy theories, flat earth would fall in the most implausible side of the spectrum, and the murder of Epstein in the most plausible side...
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What evidence do you have that Epstein was murdered?
 
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