Engaged?

[CFLarsen]

We only need to mutually agree the criteria to choose the dictionaries, once you agree to accept the result that comes from the chosen dictionaries. You refuse to do so.

Where do I do that?

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Where do I do that?

The latest example is my post #341.

"Unless and until you agree to accept that the definition contained in a representative sample of dictionaries, selected on mutually agreed criteria, as the definition of "engaged" or "engagement", then there is no point in discussing how the sample will be selected. It's up to you - are you willing to do so or not? Yes or no?"

And your reply:

"How can I agree to something you refuse to tell me what is?"

Of course perhaps I have misinterpreted you and you WILL agree to accept such a definition as being what "engaged" or "engagement" means? If so please clarify.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Where do I do that?

Now, anyone who wanted to advance the thread and make a positive contribution to the discussion would've done one of two things here.

1: Reiterated a refusal to accept the result and explained why.

2: Denied the refusal and promised to accept that result.

Someone who's simply trolling says, 'Where do I do that?'.

 

[CFLarsen]

The latest example is my post #341.

"Unless and until you agree to accept that the definition contained in a representative sample of dictionaries, selected on mutually agreed criteria, as the definition of "engaged" or "engagement", then there is no point in discussing how the sample will be selected. It's up to you - are you willing to do so or not? Yes or no?"

And your reply:

"How can I agree to something you refuse to tell me what is?"

Of course perhaps I have misinterpreted you and you WILL agree to accept such a definition as being what "engaged" or "engagement" means? If so please clarify.

I have asked you so many times to state what your criteria are, that you cannot possibly misunderstand it anymore.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

I have asked you so many times to state what your criteria are, that you cannot possibly misunderstand it anymore.

Perhaps there is something about the term "mutually agreed" that you find confusing?

Or perhaps you simply wish to try and divert the thread into pointless deadends?

We only need to mutually agree the criteria to choose the dictionaries, once you agree to accept the result that comes from the chosen dictionaries. You, still, refuse to do so.

 

[CFLarsen]

Perhaps there is something about the term "mutually agreed" that you find confusing?

No, not at all.

Or perhaps you simply wish to try and divert the thread into pointless deadends?

No, not at all.

We only need to mutually agree the criteria to choose the dictionaries, once you agree to accept the result that comes from the chosen dictionaries. You, still, refuse to do so.

I, still, keep asking you where I refuse to do so.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

No, not at all.



No, not at all.



I, still, keep asking you where I refuse to do so.

The latest example is my post #362, where I referred to post #341.

"Unless and until you agree to accept that the definition contained in a representative sample of dictionaries, selected on mutually agreed criteria, as the definition of "engaged" or "engagement", then there is no point in discussing how the sample will be selected. It's up to you - are you willing to do so or not? Yes or no?"

And your reply:

"How can I agree to something you refuse to tell me what is?"

Of course perhaps I have misinterpreted you and you WILL agree to accept such a definition as being what "engaged" or "engagement" means? If so please clarify.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Now, anyone who wanted to advance the thread and make a positive contribution to the discussion <snip>

Of course anyone who wanted to achieve those things would have ensured that matters did not reach this stage by providing a definition of the terms, as they are using them, about 9 pages ago.

Someone who refuses to do so despite requests from many different people perhaps does not deserve the benefit of the doubt when it comes to assumptions about their intentions.

 

[CFLarsen]

The latest example is my post #362, where I referred to post #341.

"Unless and until you agree to accept that the definition contained in a representative sample of dictionaries, selected on mutually agreed criteria, as the definition of "engaged" or "engagement", then there is no point in discussing how the sample will be selected. It's up to you - are you willing to do so or not? Yes or no?"

And your reply:

"How can I agree to something you refuse to tell me what is?"

Of course perhaps I have misinterpreted you and you WILL agree to accept such a definition as being what "engaged" or "engagement" means? If so please clarify.

We are at an impasse, until you:

1: Tell me where I refuse to accept the result that comes from the chosen dictionaries.

2: Tell me your criteria for choosing the dictionaries.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

We are at an impasse, until you:

1: Tell me where I refuse to accept the result that comes from the chosen dictionaries.

This has been done. Twice.

You can clear this supposed roadblock (which is in fact a diversion as it matters not whether you have or have not refused to accept the result if you confirm that you are in fact willing to do so) by making it clear, with a simple "yes" or "no" to the question of whether you will accept such a result.

Only you can clear this one, nobody else, because it is about whether YOU will accept the result. If there is an impasse, it is only because you will not answer.

2: Tell me your criteria for choosing the dictionaries.

Irrelevant - my criteria are NOT what the dictionaries will be chosen on. The wording is very clear, "mutually agreed". It is impossible for me to mutually agree criteria by the very definition of the term.

Once you agree to accept the result, we can agree some criteria for choosing the dictionaries.

 

[CFLarsen]

This has been done. Twice.

And I have told you again and again that you are wrong. That is not what I am saying.

Irrelevant - my criteria are NOT what the dictionaries will be chosen on.

Since I have not claimed that your criteria are what the dictionaries will be chosen on, this cannot be "irrelevant".

The wording is very clear, "mutually agreed". It is impossible for me to mutually agree criteria by the very definition of the term.

Once you agree to accept the result, we can agree some criteria for choosing the dictionaries.

All I want to know is what your criteria are.

If you agree that the criteria have to be mutually agreed on, you must have made up your mind about what your criteria are.

I simply cannot understand why you refuse to tell me what your criteria are. They cannot be "irrelevant", if they consist of your input to what the mutually agreed on criteria should be.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Round and round we go...

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

And I have told you again and again that you are wrong. That is not what I am saying.

You have refused to agree to accept the definition. The evidence of this is the FACT that you have not agreed.

Since I have not claimed that your criteria are what the dictionaries will be chosen on, this cannot be "irrelevant".

Certainly can - and is.

All I want to know is what your criteria are.

Yet this is totally irrelevant, because if you don't like my criteria they will not be the ones that we mutually agree. This is a pointless diversion.

If you agree that the criteria have to be mutually agreed on, you must have made up your mind about what your criteria are.

This is totally illogical - there would be no point in my deciding what my criteria are because they will not be used.

I simply cannot understand why you refuse to tell me what your criteria are. They cannot be "irrelevant", if they consist of your input to what the mutually agreed on criteria should be.

I simply cannot understand why you will not confirm that you will accept the definition. You will have equal input into the criteria (note that I have expressed no desire to know what your criteria are for choosing the sample is as there is no need to know this unless and until you agree to accept the definition) so why you need details of a set of criteria that you will not be bound by way in any way is beyond me - unless it is a simple diversionary tactic intended to deflect from the fact that you continually refuse to confirm that you will accept the definition from a representative sample of dictionaries.

So, the only person who can move this forward is you.

To do so all you have to do is agree to accept the definition. Until you do there is nothing else to say.

 

[CFLarsen]

You have refused to agree to accept the definition. The evidence of this is the FACT that you have not agreed.

*sigh*

What does it matter what I say, if you will interpret it your way anyway?

Yet this is totally irrelevant, because if you don't like my criteria they will not be the ones that we mutually agree. This is a pointless diversion.

Well, duh! That's how we mutually agree on what the criteria will be: I might not agree to some of yours, but you might not agree to some of mine, either.

This is totally illogical - there would be no point in my deciding what my criteria are because they will not be used.

How do you know that? You haven't even told me what your criteria are, before you have decided that I will refuse them.

Clearly, you are the one who refuse to move this matter forward. You insist on your own interpretation of what I say, regardless of how much I explain what I meant. You refuse to tell me what your criteria will be, because you feel I will reject them.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

*sigh*

What does it matter what I say, if you will interpret it your way anyway?



Well, duh! That's how we mutually agree on what the criteria will be: I might not agree to some of yours, but you might not agree to some of mine, either.



How do you know that? You haven't even told me what your criteria are, before you have decided that I will refuse them.

Clearly, you are the one who refuse to move this matter forward. You insist on your own interpretation of what I say, regardless of how much I explain what I meant. You refuse to tell me what your criteria will be, because you feel I will reject them.

The only person who can move this forward is you.

To do so all you have to do is agree to accept the definition. Until you do there is nothing else to say.

 

[CFLarsen]

The only person who can move this forward is you.

To do so all you have to do is agree to accept the definition. Until you do there is nothing else to say.

How do you know I will reject your criteria?

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

How do you know I will reject your criteria?

The only person who can move this forward is you.

To do so all you have to do is agree to accept the definition. Until you do there is nothing else to say.

 

[CFLarsen]

The only person who can move this forward is you.

To do so all you have to do is agree to accept the definition. Until you do there is nothing else to say.

And yet, you keep responding.

How do you suggest we find mutually agreed criteria, if you know in advance that I will reject your input?

Perhaps it is you who doesn't understand what mutually agreed means.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Right, everybody who is still participating in this thread, answer this simple question:

• What is your definition of 'engagement'?

My answer: the time between a couple agreeing to get married and actually getting married. It depends on a definite decision shared by both parties, and is usually - but not always - marked in some way, such as an announcement in the paper, a party or a ring.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

And yet, you keep responding.

How do you suggest we find mutually agreed criteria, if you know in advance that I will reject your input?

Perhaps it is you who doesn't understand what mutually agreed means.

There is nothing to agree UNTIL you agree to accept the definition - do you?

Yes or no?

The only person who can move this forward is you.

To do so all you have to do is agree to accept the definition. Until you do there is nothing else to say.