End indirect subsidies to Israel as a solution for peace

[Rockingham AH Deist]

there is only one Holocaust denier participating in this topic, and it is not I.

Their are two, I was not proclaiming you one. My apologies for not emphasizing that.

Correction: On one side, Holocaust deniers. On the other, some of the most abrasive pro-Zionists I have ever seen, and then Thunder being called a Nazi by the Zionists despite having relatives whom died in the Holocaust, and therefore no doubt rejected by the Nazis.

Awwww poor Thunder. Eees got no love, at one!

 

[Thunder]

Awwww poor Thunder. Eees got no love, at one!

sein starkes, zum ein Yid zu sein

 

[Skeptic]

I'm curious, since the Zionist's are trying to argue that it's not racist to give Jews special rights to immigrate to Israel- how would you react if America was to adopt a similar policy, encouraging near-100% Christian immigration?

If Christianity were a religion practiced only by Americans... who were expelled from the USA... and all Christians always wished to return to America... and some finally did... why, yes, in that case I would think it's justified to give Christians extra rights emigrating to America since Christianity, in that case, would be both a religion AND a nationality.

As the world is, it is the equivalent of the USA giving extra rights not to Christians, but to American Citizens, including those who were never in the country before -- say, those born abroad to American parents. Which is what the USA does. Needless to say nobody considers it illegitimate, let alone racist.

I repeat: Judaism is BOTH a religion AND a nationality. The claim that Judaism is "only a religion" is mentioned explicitly and prominently in the Palestinian Covenant -- as a reason for Israel's illegitimacy, and a justification of the fight to destroy it.

Support this claim is simply a support, probably out of ignorance, of the destruction of Israel. It's being a useful idiot in service of would-be mass murderers.

 

[Thunder]

Some Jews were expelled from Judaea, 2,000 years ago. Millions of Jews already lived outside of Judaea at that time. Many Jews today may be descendants of those Jews..and not the ones expelled. Furthermore, it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove if a Jew is descendant of Judaeans, or of other Middle Easterners who converted to Judaism 2,000 years ago.

Not only that, but the Law of "Return" even allows in folks who are not even Jewish, but simply have one single Jewish grandparent. One could have served in the Wehrmacht or the Luftwaffe, and still migrate to Israel under the Law of "Return".

Just think.....veterans of the Nazi military migrating to Israel. Funny stuff.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Oh no's, another comparison to Nazis. Never seeks to amaze me.

And yet, to claim to be a Palestinian refugee and thus an irrefutable claimant to land and compensation in the international court one merely has to reside in what is now Israel and the territories for at least 2 years prior to 1948. Amazing, isn't it?

 

[Thunder]

Oh no's, another comparison to Nazis. Never seeks to amaze me.

And yet, to claim to be a Palestinian refugee and thus an irrefutable claimant to land and compensation in the international court one merely has to reside in what is now Israel and the territories for at least 2 years prior to 1948. Amazing, isn't it?

that is correct. if one was a legal resident of Palestine for at least 2 years before 1948, and then fled or was forced from the conflict, and is now unable to return to his land, he and his descendants is a refugee from Palestine aka Palestinian refugee.

deal with it.

and yes, Erhard Milch, Luftwaffe General, convicted German war criminal, and half-Jew (possibly a full-Jew on his mother's side).....would be able to immigrate to Israel under the Law of Return.

 

[Darth Rotor]

and yes, Erhard Milch, Luftwaffe General, convicted German war criminal, and half-Jew (possibly a full-Jew on his mother's side).....would be able to immigrate to Israel under the Law of Return.

Which he would of course do, so that he could face a variety of charges for crimes against any number of people. (If he were alive today, that is).

General Milch sings a tenor solo at the Casa Rosada

Don't cry for me, old Judea,
I really wanted to move back
To Israel
But in my wild days
We killed some Juden
I'll keep my skin whole
In Buenos Aires ...

Sue me, I saw Evita two nights ago with The Missus.

 

[bigjelmapro]

that is correct. if one was a legal resident of Palestine for at least 2 years before 1948, and then fled or was forced from the conflict, and is now unable to return to his land, he and his descendants is a refugee from Palestine aka Palestinian refugee.

deal with it.

Nah, UNRWA is doing a fine job in keeping that sore open. The issue of resettlement and compensation is something the UNRWA can apply to Palestinian refugees (over 65% of whom are internally displaced).

Israel absorbed over 600,000 refugees of their own between 1947 to mid 1950's, with over 100,000 during various operations in the subsequent decades, including Sudanese, Somalis, and Ethopians, of Jewish, Muslim and Christian faith. Its about time the PA take steps and finally remove this fictional title of refugee for those residing in the WB and Gaza, and for those externally displaced the option to finally gain legal status and be absorbed in those countries (with compensation from both Israeli and Arab governments) as a responsible measure for the wars between Israel and the Arab countries.

So you whinge about Jewish people who invoke their right of return from the land of their ancestors (which according to you is impossible), but have no issue with the 'legal residency' status of immigrants invoking a right of return according to a highly unique definition of a refugee. Sorry my friend, this is not the running definition of a right of return (under the UN definition for a refugee) for all those who are Palestinian refugees.

This 'legal residency' was proclaimed under the British mandate which allowed unlimited Arab migration, but strictly limited that of Jewish migration (during a period where the latter faced genocide), following the mid 1920's British land reform acts which worked in favor to the Arabs. Which also begs to question, what really was legal about it if the British were the ones to delegate whom is legal and who would own land? Mind you this is all a repeat from all the other threads where this was left unanswered.

Are you finally going to 'deal with it'?

and yes, Erhard Milch, Luftwaffe General, convicted German war criminal, and half-Jew (possibly a full-Jew on his mother's side).....would be able to immigrate to Israel under the Law of Return.

As Darth commented on this, I doubt he would invoke his right of return, as it would be his right regardless, if he would be imprisoned for war crimes when he would set foot in Israel.

 

[Thunder]

So you whinge about Jewish people who invoke their right of return from the land of their ancestors (which according to you is impossible),

um....they cannot prove that it is the land of their ancestors. i cannot prove that my ancient ancestors lived in Judaea.

DNA evidence only proves that we are from the Fertile Crescent. In fact, it found that we have more genetically in common with the Kurds...than the Palestinians, Lebanese, Egyptians, and Jordanians.

 

[bigjelmapro]

um....they cannot prove that it is the land of their ancestors. i cannot prove that my ancient ancestors lived in Judaea.

DNA evidence only proves that we are from the Fertile Crescent. In fact, it found that we have more genetically in common with the Kurds...than the Palestinians, Lebanese, Egyptians, and Jordanians.

Taking an exerpt and ignoring the rest, as usual.

Not getting into an argument about genetics here, since given by the listing above, which aren't even related to eachother, its pretty self-evident you don't know what you're talking about.

The issue here is the argument you've made. Rebute that, or start another thread with the same drivel.

 

[Thunder]

Not getting into an argument about genetics here, since given by the listing above, which aren't even related to each other, its pretty self-evident you don't know what you're talking about.

actually, I do. but that is for another thread.

 

[bigjelmapro]

actually, I do. but that is for another thread.

Yep, a thread that's already long abandoned. But I'm sure you'll start afresh.

Again, groups you mentioned have different backgrounds and origins.

 

[Thunder]

anyways, folks who's ancestors MAY have lived in a land 2,000 years ago, can't really return to such land. that's just silly.

can British of Norman descent....return to France?

can Irish of Gaelic descent...return to Gaul?

can Gypsies return to India?

can Japanese and Koreans return to China?

give me a break.

 

[Lallante]

ITT people who have no ability to distinguish between an "ancestral" claim to land and a LEGAL, DOCUMENTED one.

The displaced palestinians ARE refugees. Anyone forced from their home and prevented from returning is a refugee.

If any other (non-jewish) country on earth, in this modern era, acted as Israel has done it would be met with condemnation across the board.

Basically Israel uses the crutch of the hollocaust (tragedy that it was) and anti-semitsm (as unpleasant as it is), to force countries to give it special treatment while it performs actions that for any other country would result in severe economic and political sanctions.

There only difference between what the Israelis are doing in the west bank and gaza, and what Mugabe has done to zimbabwe, is that the former is on a vastly more organised scale and is funded by the west (especially the USA!).

It's unbelievable. Israel should be a pariah for its Human Rights and International Law abuses but instead it is subsidised.

I'm in no way an anti-semite, I support the existance of Israel on its original borders and I acknowledge that something needs to be done about muslim extremism, but "something" is NOT 'bulldoze civilian housing and build jewish-only settlements in the ruins whilst using an embargo to slowley throttle a people to death'...

 

[lomiller]

can British of Norman descent....return to France?

can Irish of Gaelic descent...return to Gaul?

can Gypsies return to India?

can Japanese and Koreans return to China?

give me a break.

Yet you want to claim Palestinians should be able to return to a place they have never personally lived.

The problem as I see it is you are defining who should get to return to a place their ancestors lived specifically for Palestinians while excluding everyone else. IOW you are begging the question.

 

[Thunder]

Yet you want to claim Palestinians should be able to return to a place they have never personally lived.

are you suggesting that all Diaspora Jews should be considers........REFUGEES????

lololol!!!

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

are you suggesting that all Diaspora Jews should be considers........REFUGEES????

lololol!!!

Given how they've been treated in nearly every place they went to since the diaspora, why the hell not?

Carving out a parcel of land, giving jews free reign there and allowing them a nuclear arsenal has, historically speaking, been shown to be about the only way to guarantee them something approximating actual human rights and freedoms.

Everywhere else, they've been historys punching bag.

 

[Thunder]

Given how they've been treated in nearly every place they went to since the diaspora, why the hell not?

Jews in the USA, UK, Britain, Canada....are refugees???

I am no **** ing refugee. Thank you very much.

And neither are you.

This is my land. I was born here, my mother was born here, and her mother was born here. I was born here and no one is gonna make me leave here.

 

[lomiller]

This is my land. I was born here, my mother was born here, and her mother was born here. I was born here and no one is gonna make me leave here.

And of course nothing bad happened to the original inhabitants of North America…

 

[bigjelmapro]

are you suggesting that all Diaspora Jews should be considers........REFUGEES????

Initially diaspora Jews, depending which part in history one is looking at, were considered refugees when they were, as in the name implies, 'scattered' and relocated. This includes the Irish who fled, as a collective, from the potato famine in the end 19th century, many of whom relocated to the US. First recorded use of the term diaspora apparently. These Irish were considered refugees.

Difference is, when one resettles, you're not a refugee anymore. This concept, no matter how hard you try to make a double standard, also applies to the Palestinians, majority of which were internally displaced, whom also resettled.

This is my land. I was born here, my mother was born here, and her mother was born here. I was born here and no one is gonna make me leave here.

Thanks for another golden nugget from the horse's mouth...almost as good as the previous one.