End indirect subsidies to Israel as a solution for peace

[DC]

Which is why Switzerland grants automatic visas to anybody who applies to live there.

Wouldn't want to be racist, you know.

 

[theprestige]

Given for an entity like Gaza it is impossible to grow any where enough of its own food, and impossible to trade normally or develop a normal economy to buy food... Gazans have very little chance of a normal career, guaranteed food supply and so no real barriers to fertility...The reason that the Gaza strip can not support its population is mainly because it is crowded with folks that used to live where Israel is now and the fact that there are no restrictions on its birth rate.

You lost me. Why is it impossible for Gaza to trade normally or develop a normal economy to buy food? Why do Gazans have "very little chance" of jobs and food?

Hong Kong has no arable land at all, and extremely high population density. Its inhabitants could quite easily have spent the last century waging a terrorist war against British imperialists and Chinese communists, increasingly enabled by the international community. But somehow, the people of Hong Kong have figured out a way to produce a peaceful and highly-profitable society instead.

ETA: What prevents Gazans from doing the same? Racial inferiority? Cultural ineptitude? Religious dogma? Revolutionary propaganda? A cult of victimhood? I'm sure Israel couldn't care less if Gaza were the Hong Kong of the Mediterranean, or if it remains, well, Gaza.

Actually, I take that back: I'm sure Israel would much prefer to share its borders with another Hong Kong. And I'm equally sure that Gazans would rather retain their current status as an oppressed bantustan.

 

[Skeptic]

DC -- I was being sarcastic. My point was that not every immigration policy that prefers one group over another is "racist". Israel's is no different than that of most western countries (non-western ones are something else: Jordan, e.g., flat out makes it illegal to sell land to Jews, for example). ]

But I repeat: all of a sudden the neo-nazis are against racism???

Who knew?

 

[DC]

DC -- I was being sarcastic. My point was that not every immigration policy that prefers one group over another is "racist". Israel's is no different than that of most western countries (non-western ones are something else: Jordan, e.g., flat out makes it illegal to sell land to Jews, for example). ]

But I repeat: all of a sudden the neo-nazis are against racism???

Who knew?

ah now i got it

 

[Skeptic]

ETA: What prevents Gazans from doing the same? Racial inferiority? Cultural ineptitude? Religious dogma? Revolutionary propaganda? A cult of victimhood?

All except the first one. But I am surprised LGR & co. don't include all five. After all, they're the ones who go on and on about the evil Asiatic (or Muslim) hordes taking over Europe.

I'm sure Israel couldn't care less if Gaza were the Hong Kong of the Mediterranean, or if it remains, well, Gaza.

We can dream. Indeed, in the heyday of the Oslo "peace" accord -- before Arafat decided to re-open the terrorist war of annihilation in the land given to him -- many Israelies believed that Gaza would be just such an "Hong Kong"-like country.

The ironic thing is that, of all the world, the only country that actually has a stake in the well-being of the Palestinians, apart from they themselves, is Israel: a neighbor who is prospering is less likely to start a war.

All the rest, their own leaders and the various "human rights" groups in the west included, have a very strong vested interest in keeping the Palestinians as poor and uneducated and resentful and bitter as possible.

Actually, I take that back: I'm sure Israel would much prefer to share its borders with another Hong Kong. And I'm equally sure that Gazans would rather retain their current status as an oppressed bantustan.

The Palestinians, individually, would not.

The Palestinians as a nation -- their leadership and those in power who call the shots -- most definitely would.

 

[Thunder]

it is racist for Israel to give preferential immigration rules to anyone on Earth who has one single Jewish grandparent, while not allowing Palestinian refugees to come home after 62 years.

King Hussein was a real jerk for not including repatriation of at least some Palestinian refugees living in Jordan, in the 1994 peace treaty.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

it is racist for Israel to give preferential immigration rules to anyone on Earth who has one single Jewish grandparent, while not allowing Palestinian refugees to come home after 62 years.

There is no such thing as a right to "come home" to land that rightfully belongs to someone else.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

As we no longer find it acceptable to use starvation has an economic lever

Starvation:

Gaza:

Try again, only this time, use facts not anti-semitic fantasies.

 

[Skeptic]

The so-called "right of return" is, and had always been, simply a way to destroy Israel demographically and make into another Arab state -- with all that that implies as to the fate of the Jews there, which would be (best-case scenario) dhimmi status, or (most likely) expelled en masse, or (worst-case scenario) butchered to the last baby, as the plan was in 1948.

Thunder supports this and yet calls himself a zionist. Go figure. I get it: every day is opposites' day!

 

[little grey rabbit]

Starvation:


Gaza:

Try again, only this time, use facts not anti-semitic fantasies.

Sword of Truth, I understand the very low intelligence of the average JREFer and the need to dumb down concepts for this audience. But could you point out what of the following you didn't understand?

Given for an entity like Gaza it is impossible to grow any where enough of its own food, and impossible to trade normally or develop a normal economy to buy food. Virtually everything is either donated by the international community or purchased by funds sent home by migrant workers.

As we no longer find it acceptable to use starvation has an economic lever, Gazans have very little chance of a normal career, guaranteed food supply and so no real barriers to fertility. From a Gazan having more children is probably an economic sensible choice.

Dr Martin Kramer controversially made the same point:

Aging populations reject radical agendas, and the Middle East is no different. Now eventually, this will happen among the Palestinians too, but it will happen faster if the West stops providing pro-natal subsidies for Palestinians with refugee status. Those subsidies are one reason why, in the ten years from 1997 to 2007, Gaza's population grew by an astonishing 40 percent. At that rate, Gaza's population will double by 2030, to three million. Israel's present sanctions on Gaza have a political aim undermine the Hamas regime but if they also break Gaza's runaway population growth and there is some evidence that they have that might begin to crack the culture of martyrdom which demands a constant supply of superfluous young men

Trouble is it is impossible to really apply effective sanctions to restrain the birthrate, unless you literally mean withholding food, because Gaza has and can have no meaningful economy in its current situation.

There are no economic levers to apply that results in having more children meaning economic difficulties, because it is a society that runs on food aid and can do nothing other than run on food aid. At that point, having more children becomes an economic benefit, not a burden.

Gaza's population growth is unsustainable and is just a time bomb that will keep expanding. And what sort of life is it for those 3 million by 2030? Its already a monstrous situation and its going to get more monstrous.

What I feel is by picking up the tab for Israel's ethnic cleansing we are really encouraging this time bomb to keep growing, in the end to Israel's ultimate detriment. By forcing Israel to pay for the cost of its own Bantu-stans we will provide an economic incentive for Israel to work to a solution that will allow the occupied territories to become self-supporting.

By funding the problem, we are funding Israel moving blindly to its own destruction.

As a pro-semite I find that very distressing.

 

[funk de fino]

Sword of Truth, I understand the very low intelligence of the average JREFer and the need to dumb down concepts for this audience. But could you point out what of the following you didn't understand?

That would only be the racist or bigoted members (in addition to the 911 CT lot). In other words, you need to dumb it down for your own lot.

 

[dafydd]

Sword of Truth, I understand the very low intelligence of the average JREFer

I presume that you are referring to your own intelligence?

 

[little grey rabbit]

Well it wasnt me who felt the need to spam the board with beside the point atrocity pics.

If I had said Israel was starving Gaza, there might of been a point. But actually my whole point was Gaza was being feed to adequate levels, but Israel should be paying for it, as an incentive to help built the framework for a more self-sustaining economy.

I mean sorry, if that basic point so easily flies over the head of the average JREFer, then I will have to consider how to dumb things down for the audience here.

I have already had people here tell me there are no German records at Buchenwald and that SMERSH doesnt exist and all kinds of strange things over on the history forum. I am not used to having to work so hard to educate people on these subjects.

 

[funk de fino]

Well it wasnt me who felt the need to spam the board with beside the point atrocity pics.

If I had said Israel was starving Gaza, there might of been a point. But actually my whole point was Gaza was being feed to adequate levels, but Israel should be paying for it, as an incentive to help built the framework for a more self-sustaining economy.

I mean sorry, if that basic point so easily flies over the head of the average JREFer, then I will have to consider how to dumb things down for the audience here.

I have already had people here tell me there are no German records at Buchenwald and that SMERSH doesnt exist and all kinds of strange things over on the history forum. I am not used to having to work so hard to educate people on these subjects.

You could take your denial claptrap and bigoted pish back to that forum and leave this one for the normal people.

Thanks.

 

[little grey rabbit]

You could take your denial claptrap and bigoted pish back to that forum and leave this one for the normal people.

Thanks.

If being a normal person means loudly proclaiming that there are no German records in Buchenwald, SMERSH doesnt exist, and posting atrocity photos in meaningless places, then yes I guess I am not normal.

I have come to the view that a large number of JREFers are not particularly normal and not in a good way either.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Well it wasnt me who felt the need to spam the board with beside the point atrocity pics.

Snickers™ and Corn Flakes™ are considered atrocities now?

Are you mad that they don't have the KFC Double Down in Gaza yet?

 

[little grey rabbit]

Snickers™ and Corn Flakes™ are considered atrocities now?

Are you mad that they don't have the KFC Double Down in Gaza yet?

So if I understand you correctly the only thing wrong with the Warsaw Ghetto is the Germans didn't provide sufficient rations.

Good to know.

It will still leave Israel with 3 million Gazans in a small strip with absolutely no economy in 2030.

 

[funk de fino]

If being a normal person means loudly proclaiming that there are no German records in Buchenwald, SMERSH doesnt exist, and posting atrocity photos in meaningless places, then yes I guess I am not normal.

I have come to the view that a large number of JREFers are not particularly normal and not in a good way either.

Try and keep this sub forum clean of your OT trash.

There's a nice boy.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Try and keep this sub forum clean of your OT trash.

There's a nice boy.

Actually the only person who has not addressed the topic was you, when you jumped in with your personal attacks. I simply corrected you.

If you have anything to add to the topic of if Israel was required to find the maintenance of Gaza it would provide a financial incentive to take peace talks more seriously, please do.

I am all ears.

 

[funk de fino]

Actually the only person who has not addressed the topic was you, when you jumped in with your personal attacks. I simply corrected you.

If you have anything to add to the topic of if Israel was required to find the maintenance of Gaza it would provide a financial incentive to take peace talks more seriously, please do.

I am all ears.

I was replying to you attacks on JREF members.

You're closed minded and not all ears. Bigots never are. You brought the OT stuff, not me. Stop lying.