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HARRY GUNN REED, Warren's grandfather is some kind of Delaware Native American?

That's not what the DNA test says.

Sigh. Concentrate and see if you can follow this:

Did Mapes’s father, a raven-haired lawyer, have Native American roots, or did he not? Mapes’s grandmother maintained that he had one-quarter tribal blood. But her mother wanted to hear nothing of it.

That would make Harry Reedpart Native American, possibly Delaware. However, the Delaware and the Creek merged so that could account for the stories of Delaware and/or Creek ancestry.

And yes, the DNA results do support NA ancestry.


Also contained in the Boston Globe article are interviews with other cousins of Warren and her brother who back up Warren's claims of family stories concerning Delaware and Cherokee ancestry.

David Herring of Norman, Okla., one of Warren’s three brothers, said in an interview that even when he was a child his relatives were reluctant to talk about the family’s Native American heritage because “it was not popular in my family.’’ Only when he begged his grandparents, said Herring, did they finally explain to him: “Your grandfather is part Delaware, a little bitty bit, way back, and your grandmother is part Cherokee. It was not the most popular thing to do in Oklahoma. [Indians] were degraded, looked down on.’’

Warren’s brothers, Don, John, and David Herring, also issued a joint statement supporting their sister. “The people attacking Betsy and our family don’t know much about either. We grew up listening to our mother and grandmother and other relatives talk about our family’s Cherokee and Delaware heritage. They’ve passed away now, but they’d be angry if they were around today listening to all this.’’

Details of family stories, like the game "telephone, can change when passed down through the generations. A Delaware great-great-great grandparent can become a Cherokee great-great grandparent or vice versa.
But the fact that it was not only Warren, but her brothers and other cousins who also reported very similar stories being passed down is evidence that Warren was not lying as you previously claimed.

And no DNA test can determine whether someone is Delaware, Comanche, Apache, Arapaho, Sioux or any other specific tribe. Obviously then, the DNA test did not say Warren's grandfather "was some kind of Delaware Native American".
 
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Warren’s brothers, Don, John, and David Herring, also issued a joint statement supporting their sister. “The people attacking Betsy and our family don’t know much about either. We grew up listening to our mother and grandmother and other relatives talk about our family’s Cherokee and Delaware heritage. They’ve passed away now, but they’d be angry if they were around today listening to all this.’’

They might almost have read this thread.
 
And even if you shared just one grandparent with a person, that grandparent is still a blood ancestor of the two of you.

That level of obtuseness is truly heroic - I'm thinking it has to be deliberate. I share one great-grandmother with a writer cited in this thread. My grandfather and her grandfather are different people, however, because they had different fathers. They were half brothers, not stepbrothers.

It takes a high level of confusion to believe that marriage somehow creates a blood relationship. Or, some people just like the attention they get from nonsensical posts. Like a few pages back when it was claimed that being part Cherokee really means half Cherokee.

A person has cousins and second cousins on the side of one parent and cousins and second cousins on the side of the other.

Warren's DNA test would have been a mitrcochondrial one, as a female's chromosomes (the X one) is handed down through the female line. If it was Warren's mother's grandfather who was one-quarter Native American, then it wouldn't show in Warren's DNA, unless she got a male sibling or father to also take a DNA test for the Y-haplotype side.

AIUI Warren claims the DNA is in the female line (her mother) so it seems surprising that her DNA test supposedly reflects her one-quarter grandfather.

It's a red flag it's now the male side, when Warren claimed it was the female one.
 
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Here's a refresher course on DNA: Only sex-linked genes (those on the X chromosome itself) are handed down through the female line. When a male enters the line, he brings in one of his mother's X chromosomes, rather than a daughter receiving both one of her mother's X chromosomes and one of her father's mother's X chromosomes. There are 22 other chromosomes in a haploid cell which contain genetic information. These are also entirely separate from mitochondrial DNA, which is a different test. Stop digging, you're in the dark now. Making up stuff to support your position doesn't work when your audience knows your claims are ridiculous.
 
A person has cousins and second cousins on the side of one parent and cousins and second cousins on the side of the other.

Warren's DNA test would have been a mitrcochondrial one, as a female's chromosomes (the X one) is handed down through the female line. If it was Warren's mother's grandfather who was one-quarter Native American, then it wouldn't show in Warren's DNA, unless she got a male sibling or father to also take a DNA test for the Y-haplotype side.
AIUI Warren claims the DNA is in the female line (her mother) so it seems surprising that her DNA test supposedly reflects her one-quarter grandfather.

It's a red flag it's now the male side, when Warren claimed it was the female one.

Oh Dear, wrong again. You're not learning are you.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-boston-globe-journalists-trump-a8595001.html

Warren's DNA was sequenced and analysed by a group led by Carlos Bustamante, a well-regarded Stanford University geneticist. Researchers studied a fraction - far less than 1/1,000th - of Ms Warren's DNA, and then compared it to the DNA of 148 people from Finland, Italy, Spain, China, Nigeria and North and South America. Additional comparison was done on 185 individuals from Utah and Great Britain.

As one might expect, the vast majority - 95 per cent - of Ms Warren's DNA indicated European ancestors. But five genetic segments were identified, with 99 per cent confidence, as being associated with Native American ancestry. The largest segment identified was on Chromosome 10.
"While the vast majority of the individual's ancestry is European, the results strongly support the existence of an unadmixed Native American ancestor in the individual's pedigree, likely in the range of 6-10 generations ago," the report said.

While Mr Bustamente, A REAL SCIENTIST who has been studying biophysics for over 40 years.....

Research Assistant, UC Berkeley (1976–1981)
Postdoctoral Fellow, Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, UC Berkeley (1981–1982)
Assistant Professor, Department of Chemistry, University of New Mexico (1982–1986)
Associate Professor, Department of Chemistry, University of New Mexico (1986–1989)
Professor of Chemistry, Department of Chemistry, University of New Mexico (1989–1990)
Professor of Chemistry and Member of the Institute of Molecular Biology, University of Oregon (1991–1998)
Professor in Molecular and Cell Biology, Chemistry, and Physics, UC Berkeley (1998–present)
Honorary Professor, National University of San Marcos, Lima, Peru​

.... is using all the skill and knowledge accumulated over a lifetime of study to complete HIS TASK, you, some Nellie Nobody on an internet forum, are making stuff up out of whole cloth, in a field of study where you clearly have ZERO understanding, all so that you can try to avoid admitting that YOU ARE WRONG!!!!

Read what Silly Green Monkey said... he/she is correct - especially the last sentence.

Here's a refresher course on DNA: Only sex-linked genes (those on the X chromosome itself) are handed down through the female line. When a male enters the line, he brings in one of his mother's X chromosomes, rather than a daughter receiving both one of her mother's X chromosomes and one of her father's mother's X chromosomes. There are 22 other chromosomes in a haploid cell which contain genetic information. These are also entirely separate from mitochondrial DNA, which is a different test. Stop digging, you're in the dark now. Making up stuff to support your position doesn't work when your audience knows your claims are ridiculous.
 
A person has cousins and second cousins on the side of one parent and cousins and second cousins on the side of the other.

Warren's DNA test would have been a mitrcochondrial one, as a female's chromosomes (the X one) is handed down through the female line. If it was Warren's mother's grandfather who was one-quarter Native American, then it wouldn't show in Warren's DNA, unless she got a male sibling or father to also take a DNA test for the Y-haplotype side.

AIUI Warren claims the DNA is in the female line (her mother) so it seems surprising that her DNA test supposedly reflects her one-quarter grandfather.

It's a red flag it's now the male side, when Warren claimed it was the female one.

Wrong again. Warren's test would have been autosomal, not mitochondrial.

Autosomal DNA tests trace a person’s autosomal chromosomes, which contain the segments of DNA the person shares with everyone to whom they’re related (maternally and paternally, both directly and indirectly).

Autosomal DNA tests can confirm ethnicity percentages and close relationships with a high level of accuracy.
(Ancestry.com)

Time to park the backhoe.
 
A person has cousins and second cousins on the side of one parent and cousins and second cousins on the side of the other.

Warren's DNA test would have been a mitrcochondrial one,
No it isn't see Smartcooky's comment about the markers being on Chromosome 10. The clue is in the name "chromosome"
as a female's chromosomes (the X one) is handed down through the female line.
You are confused. Whilst it is indeed true that the mother provides one X chromosome to her daughters, the father provides the other. The Y chromosome is passed down through the male line, and the mitochondrial DNA is passed down through the female line, but if my daughter has a child, there is a 50% chance that the X-chromosome that that child inherits from their mother will come from me, and my daughter's paternal grandmother. Of course there is a 50% chance that the X-chromosome would come from my daughter's mother.

There is a simple table below that hopefully makes it clear that the father contributes an X-chromosome to any daughter
|Child|Mother|Father|
|girl|X+mitochondria|X|
|boy|X+mitochondria|Y|

If it was Warren's mother's grandfather who was one-quarter Native American, then it wouldn't show in Warren's DNA, unless she got a male sibling or father to also take a DNA test for the Y-haplotype side.
As has been said before, that is utterly misunderstanding how DNA analysis works.

Just because one can look at the X-chromosome or Y-chromosome, one isn't limited to it


AIUI Warren claims the DNA is in the female line (her mother) so it seems surprising that her DNA test supposedly reflects her one-quarter grandfather.

It's a red flag it's now the male side, when Warren claimed it was the female one.

No that is your misunderstanding of the science.
 
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Warren's DNA test would have been a mitrcochondrial one, as a female's chromosomes (the X one) is handed down through the female line. If it was Warren's mother's grandfather who was one-quarter Native American, then it wouldn't show in Warren's DNA, unless she got a male sibling or father to also take a DNA test for the Y-haplotype side.

Ancestry.com FAQ

The AncestryDNA test analyzes your entire genome—all 23 pairs of chromosomes—as opposed to only looking at the Y-chromosome or mitochondrial DNA (which makes other types of tests gender specific). Your autosomal chromosomes carry genetic information from both your parents that's passed down through the generations.
Having read through large portions of this thread I have concluded you don't know what you're talking about. I almost envy the confidence you have invested in statement after statement that turned out to be wildly erroneous. You've helped make this thread very informative, due to people scurrying to demonstrate that you are spectacularly wrong, once again. If that's a deliberate educational technique, my hat is off to you. It's quite effective. However, if you actually believe the horse**** you keep peddling, your confidence in your own declarations is monumentally delusional.
 
It is the highest form of self-respect to admit our errors and mistakes and make amends for them. To make a mistake is only an error in judgment, but to adhere to it when it is discovered shows infirmity of character.
Dale Turner
 
I wonder if Native ancestry is passed on more prevalently from the female side, though. A white man taking an Indian wife seems like it would be more common than a white woman marrying a Native American, just because I imagine white women were relatively rare in the cowboys-and-Indians days. But as for consumer DNA tests looking only at mitochondrial DNA, wrong. And as explained above, even that does not ignore ancestry from the father's side. And after one generation you might find half-native men who could take white wives, if they "passed" enough to dilute extant bigotry.

My adopted brother was found by his birth family when he and a man who had the same father both took DNA tests and opted-in to the part of the program that finds relatives. They talked on the phone and the stories fit. Somehow from that he was able to find out who his birth mother was. (Both birth parents married other people and had more kids). It took a little work because both birth parents had died, so this was pieced together from bits of family lore.

If ONLY the "female" genetic material was tested, how could a DNA test connect two half-brothers who shared the same father? I mean, it could all be a hoax, but I doubt it. My mother unfortunately has dementia and does not remember that she met my brother's birth mom, but she did. She can't confirm any of the rest of the story. My brother does have a photo, though, and the family resemblance is clear.

I feel slightly bereft that "my" brother has 7 half-siblings in the American SE, and I kind of understand a little why some Native Americans would react negatively to Warren's DNA declaration. Because being a member of a tribe, or a family, is more than having Native American ancestors. But she never claimed or suggested that she was a tribal member, so that criticism is IMO misguided.
 
I wonder if Native ancestry is passed on more prevalently from the female side, though. A white man taking an Indian wife seems like it would be more common than a white woman marrying a Native American, just because I imagine white women were relatively rare in the cowboys-and-Indians days. But as for consumer DNA tests looking only at mitochondrial DNA, wrong. And as explained above, even that does not ignore ancestry from the father's side. And after one generation you might find half-native men who could take white wives, if they "passed" enough to dilute extant bigotry.

My adopted brother was found by his birth family when he and a man who had the same father both took DNA tests and opted-in to the part of the program that finds relatives. They talked on the phone and the stories fit. Somehow from that he was able to find out who his birth mother was. (Both birth parents married other people and had more kids). It took a little work because both birth parents had died, so this was pieced together from bits of family lore.

If ONLY the "female" genetic material was tested, how could a DNA test connect two half-brothers who shared the same father? I mean, it could all be a hoax, but I doubt it. My mother unfortunately has dementia and does not remember that she met my brother's birth mom, but she did. She can't confirm any of the rest of the story. My brother does have a photo, though, and the family resemblance is clear.

I feel slightly bereft that "my" brother has 7 half-siblings in the American SE, and I kind of understand a little why some Native Americans would react negatively to Warren's DNA declaration. Because being a member of a tribe, or a family, is more than having Native American ancestors. But she never claimed or suggested that she was a tribal member, so that criticism is IMO misguided.

It absolutely was more common for a white man to marry (or have children with outside of "Christian marriage") a NA woman than vice-versa. As you said, this was due to the lack of available white women on the frontiers of westward movement. I think it also had a lot to do with what society would accept from men vs women. Men had 'needs' whereas a woman would be scorned if she partnered with an Indian.
 
I wonder if Native ancestry is passed on more prevalently from the female side, though. A white man taking an Indian wife seems like it would be more common than a white woman marrying a Native American, just because I imagine white women were relatively rare in the cowboys-and-Indians days.

A very valid point, but that has to do with statistics, not genetics.
 
More bad news for Warren: She listed herself as Native American on her Texas state bar registration. Unlike previous examples of her fraudulent identity claims, this one is in her own handwriting, so she can't blame anyone else for it.

Good luck in the primaries, Lizzy.
 
Not sure why that's bad news, beyond dragging out the whole affair. I also don't care about Donny's grabbing comments. We know both happened and what they meant. Move on to today, please.
 
More bad news for Warren: She listed herself as Native American on her Texas state bar registration. Unlike previous examples of her fraudulent identity claims, this one is in her own handwriting, so she can't blame anyone else for it.

May 6, 1986

That almost 33 years ago

Big Fat Who Cares!

Meanwhile, you have a narcissistic, misogynistic, racist criminal mob-boss sitting at the Resolute Desk.
 
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More bad news for Warren: She listed herself as Native American on her Texas state bar registration. Unlike previous examples of her fraudulent identity claims, this one is in her own handwriting, so she can't blame anyone else for it.

Good luck in the primaries, Lizzy.

I can't help wondering which of her Democratic opponents suggested to the Washington Post that they check her bar association application.
 
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