Elizabeth Warren Ancestry Thread

[Distracted1]

This whole discussion has gotten off the point.

1.Warren claimed she had some distant Native-American ancestry. She never stipulated how much.

2. She said the story was handed down through the family.

3.Trump, in his usual stupid need to denigrate and mock, called her 'Pocahontas'.

4. Trump declared if she took a DNA test and it determined she had N-A lineage, he'd donate $1 million to a charity she named.

5. DNA test found her to have N-A lineage.

6. Trump denies the $1 million donation to charity.

All this nonsense about what percentage she has, how much most Americans may have, the cook book, the directory, whether she's a member of a tribe, etc is nothing but an attempt to distract from the fact that Trump ended up with egg on his face yet again.

A quibble, but he actually said that "if the test proved she was an Indian".

An Important distinction when trying to weasel out of the consequenses of his claim, I am sure.

 

[kookbreaker]

You may as well say 'Warren has fifteen times more Native American than the Amish population'.

The Amish can end up with Indian ancestry. It’s extremely creepy as it involves breeding with other PA Dutch, and an accepted lie. But it happens.

 

[Stacyhs]

Aren't they a bunch of cultist Mormons who have only ever married amongst themselves?

You may as well say 'Warren has fifteen times more Native American than the Amish population'.

Ignorant remark. Utah is comprised of about 55% Mormons. That does not mean they have been Mormon for generations. Many of these are recent converts. My aunt and uncle both lived in Utah but were first generation Mormons. Thus, their genetic makeup is not that different from non-Mormons. And no, Mormons don't 'only ever marry amongst themselves". My Mormon cousin married a non-Mormon and my husband and his brother, both ex-Mormons, married non-Mormon women.

 

[BobTheCoward]

This whole discussion has gotten off the point.

1.Warren claimed she had some distant Native-American ancestry. She never stipulated how much.

2. She said the story was handed down through the family.

3.Trump, in his usual stupid need to denigrate and mock, called her 'Pocahontas'.

4. Trump declared if she took a DNA test and it determined she had N-A lineage, he'd donate $1 million to a charity she named.

5. DNA test found her to have N-A lineage.

6. Trump denies the $1 million donation to charity.

All this nonsense about what percentage she has, how much most Americans may have, the cook book, the directory, whether she's a member of a tribe, etc is nothing but an attempt to distract from the fact that Trump ended up with egg on his face yet again.

She also marked herself as a minority law teacher.

This is a a skeptics forum. Accepting family stories as true without evidence is not skeptical behavior. That is bad.

 

[The Big Dog]

Which of course, you could rightly spin to call "blasted" if Warren was actually claiming "tribal heritage". Perhaps you could show us all where she makes any "tribal heritage" claim.

Did y’all read any of the statement?

There is ever so much more blasting.

Show us that you read it!

 

[Distracted1]

It's obvious that a person is 50% of each of their parents.

Where it becomes complicated is in the phenotypes. Thus you can have two or three generations of, say, brunettes on both sides, and suddenly a blonde appears.

I expect this is what happened with Warren's mother: had Native Indian features, which were a throwback two generations.

It's not uncommon for a person to look like one of the grandparents.

Not really "obvious" in that many people resemble one parent to a far greater extent than the other- nonetheless I see your point, we get %50 of our genes from each parent.
That leaves %50 of each parents' genes that are not passed on. And a seemingly random collection at that.
Is it not possible that one could have a %100 Chinese grandparent, and still only wind up with %1 Chinese genes? Due to the ones being passed down randomly not including the "Chinese genes"

 

[quadraginta]

Aren't they a bunch of cultist Mormons who have only ever married amongst themselves?

Hardly. They grabbed new members from wherever they could.

Some after they were deceased, even.

You may as well say 'Warren has fifteen times more Native American than the Amish population'.

No, nothing at all like the Amish.

Maybe you should study more about the groups before you make utterly mistaken claims about them.

 

[Stacyhs]

A quibble, but he actually said that "if the test proved she was an Indian".

An Important distinction when trying to weasel out of the consequenses of his claim, I am sure.

True. And he is a weasel. It's clear what he meant, but he'll likely fall back on that sorry excuse.

 

[Stacyhs]

She also marked herself as a minority law teacher.

This is a a skeptics forum. Accepting family stories as true without evidence is not skeptical behavior. That is bad.

Warren is not a member of this skeptics forum.

No one here accepted it as proved on her family lore. We do accept her DNA results. Do you?

 

[kookbreaker]

This is a a skeptics forum. Accepting family stories as true without evidence is not skeptical behavior. That is bad.

Claiming to have NA ancestry is a far cry from claiming to have a Bigfoot corpse, evidence of alien spacecraft, or being able to bend spoons with your mind.

Sagan had a scale for this with the claims of having 10 lbs of salt, 10 lbs of lead, or 10 lbs of plutonium in your house. Claiming NA ancestors is well into the salt level.

 

[Minoosh]

My blue-eyed grandma got small royalty checks from natural gas and/or oil wells on Cherokee land in Oklahoma. If Mom is right, which she often isn't. I told a friend and he said, "Cherokees, they'll take anyone."

My best guess is she was 25 percent native American, but she sure didn't look it.

 

[Meadmaker]

In the age of Trump, what are you basing that on?

Because it's the age of Trump.

People seem to think that because her claims are proven true.....in a sense....that somehow this will make everyone who made fun of her say, "I guess she really is Native American after all." or insert any variation at all on that sentence. By doing so, they show that they don't get why Trump makes fun of her in the first place, and why crowds love it when he does.

She was listed as a "person of color". She defined her ancestry as Native American. She talked about her "heritage".

Really? Because, some distant, forgotten, ancestor was rumored to be Cherokee? Why would anyone bother to even bring it up?

Well, part of it is that somehow you are "better" if you are not "really white". Yay! I get to be a minority! And now I have the DNA test to prove it!

That's what Trump is making fun of, and today she doubled down on it. Expect plenty more "Pocahontas" references to come. She played into his hands today.

 

[theprestige]

Warren is not a member of this skeptics forum.

No one here accepted it as proved on her family lore. We do accept her DNA results. Do you?

Her DNA results don't prove her claim. They also don't justify Harvard celebrating her as a person of color on their faculty.

 

[acbytesla]

Claiming to have NA ancestry is a far cry from claiming to have a Bigfoot corpse, evidence of alien spacecraft, or being able to bend spoons with your mind.

Sagan had a scale for this with the claims of having 10 lbs of salt, 10 lbs of lead, or 10 lbs of plutonium in your house. Claiming NA ancestors is well into the salt level.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I don't believe saying you have some NA heritage is extraordinary.

 

[Stacyhs]

Her DNA results don't prove her claim. They also don't justify Harvard celebrating her as a person of color on their faculty.

How not? She claimed she had NA ancestry. Her DNA results says she does.
Would you care to quote something she said that her DNA test don't confirm?

I said nothing about Harvard. Bringing that up is just a SQUIRREL! moment.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

Because it's the age of Trump.

People seem to think that because her claims are proven true.....in a sense....that somehow this will make everyone who made fun of her say, "I guess she really is Native American after all." or insert any variation at all on that sentence. By doing so, they show that they don't get why Trump makes fun of her in the first place, and why crowds love it when he does.

She was listed as a "person of color". She defined her ancestry as Native American. She talked about her "heritage".

She was ASKED about her 'heritage'.

Really? Because, some distant, forgotten, ancestor was rumored to be Cherokee? Why would anyone bother to even bring it up?

Obviously not forgotten, or all that distant, if it's part of family lore.

Well, part of it is that somehow you are "better" if you are not "really white". Yay! I get to be a minority! And now I have the DNA test to prove it!

What a strange claim. Why are you claiming that not really white is better?

That's what Trump is making fun of, and today she doubled down on it. Expect plenty more "Pocahontas" references to come. She played into his hands today.

'Pocahontas' is a lot better than Fauxcahontas, which what Trump was calling her before when saying she wouldn't take a test because it would not back her up. Guess what, it did. What does it tell you when direct refutation is met with backpedaling and attempts at distraction?

 

[BobTheCoward]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I don't believe saying you have some NA heritage is extraordinary.

A claim by a family member is not acceptable under ordinary circumstances. Certainly not enough to attest to on a form.

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

Sagan had a scale for this with the claims of having 10 lbs of salt, 10 lbs of lead, or 10 lbs of plutonium in your house. Claiming NA ancestors is well into the salt level.

Interesting. Although I have never had 10lbs. of salt in my house (one carton of Morton's at most, I think), there have been a number of times I have had more than 10lbs. of lead. For extended periods.

Is that supposed to be a scale of decreasing likelihood?

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

A claim by a family member is not acceptable under ordinary circumstances. Certainly not enough to attest to on a form.

And yet legal forms are made every day, attested to by the mother of a newborn as to the identity of the father. Face it, Bob, this is a losing position.

 

[Stacyhs]

A quibble, but he actually said that "if the test proved she was an Indian".

An Important distinction when trying to weasel out of the consequenses of his claim, I am sure.

True. And he is a weasel. It's clear what he meant, but he'll likely fall back on that sorry excuse.

He's trying to weasel out of the charity donation with the absurd claim that it was only if she won the nomination and claimed Indian heritage during a debate with him. He's also now stipulated that he has to "test her personally". I guess he fancies himself a forensic geneticist now.