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Electric Vehicles

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novaphile said:
It's very hard to hear from inside mine, driving inside a closed space with the windows open is pretty much the only way.

From outside, it's this weird warble-warble-warble noise and it does attract a pedestrian's attention. I think it turns off at 60 km/h because tyre noise is loud enough on its own after that.
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In the US the sound turns off at 30kph (19mph).
 
uk govt
  • from 1 July 2019, manufacturers must fit acoustic sound systems to new types of quiet electric vehicles to prevent them being too silent, improving safety
  • vehicles will now have systems to produce a sound when they are reversing or driving below 20 kilometres per hour (km/h, about 12mph) providing greater confidence to vulnerable road users
  • new regulations will help ensure future transport is safe and accessible for everyone, a key Future of Mobility: Urban Strategy pledge
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catsmate said:
Musk and Tesla lied about vehicle range and obstructed customers. Lawsuits to follow. Musk and Tesla silent on matter.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/explain...ands-of-driving-range-complaints-1507841.html
https://www.autonews.com/mobility-r...dled a variety,of a telemarketing boiler room.
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
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From the reuters article:
“We’re looking at the range, and you literally see the number decrease in front of your eyes,” he said of his dashboard range meter.

Ponsin contacted Tesla and booked a service appointment in California. He later received two text messages, telling him that “remote diagnostics” had determined his battery was fine, and then: “We would like to cancel your visit.”

What Ponsin didn’t know was that Tesla employees had been instructed to thwart any customers complaining about poor driving range from bringing their vehicles in for service. Last summer, the company quietly created a “Diversion Team” in Las Vegas to cancel as many range-related appointments as possible.
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That's one thing that has made me a bit wary about EVs, at least as an early adopter. You're very much reliant on the manufacturer for service and repair, unlike for ICE vehicles where there's an abundant supply of affiliated and independent mechanics available to fix any issues you might encounter.

If I owned a Tesla I'd be very wary about making any waves with the only company able to actually repair my very expensive car.

Hopefully this is just an early adopter issue.

The kind of "rosy" range estimates these articles describe sound like straight up fraud to me, but this is the US, so I don't expect much in the terms of punishment.

A standardized range calculation already exists, but regulations allow for EV manufacturers to substitute their own BS tabulations:

EV makers have a choice in how to calculate a model’s range. They can use a standard EPA formula that converts fuel-economy results from city and highway driving tests to calculate a total range figure. Or automakers can conduct additional tests to come up with their own range estimate. The only reason to conduct more tests is to generate a more favorable estimate, said Pannone, a retired auto-industry veteran.
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I don't doubt the reports, but I used to suspect the same was true about my old diesel Skoda. It was much more efficient running on the full half of the tank than the half to empty portion.
 
Filippo Lippi said:
I don't doubt the reports, but I used to suspect the same was true about my old diesel Skoda. It was much more efficient running on the full half of the tank than the half to empty portion.
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Sure, EVs have no monopoly on fudging numbers (we all recall the VW cheater diesel scandal), though range estimates are much more critical for EVs because planning when and how to recharge is a bit more complicated than pulling into a petrol station.

Maybe would be less of an issue if rapid-charge EV stations were everywhere, but often people have to plan smartly to make sure they can get from charge to charge.
 
TurkeysGhost said:
From the reuters article:


That's one thing that has made me a bit wary about EVs, at least as an early adopter. You're very much reliant on the manufacturer for service and repair, unlike for ICE vehicles where there's an abundant supply of affiliated and independent mechanics available to fix any issues you might encounter.

If I owned a Tesla I'd be very wary about making any waves with the only company able to actually repair my very expensive car.

Hopefully this is just an early adopter issue.

The kind of "rosy" range estimates these articles describe sound like straight up fraud to me, but this is the US, so I don't expect much in the terms of punishment.

A standardized range calculation already exists, but regulations allow for EV manufacturers to substitute their own BS tabulations:
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I wouldn't so much as buy an RC toy car from an Elon Musk controlled company let alone a real car.
 
lobosrul5 said:
I wouldn't so much as buy an RC toy car from an Elon Musk controlled company let alone a real car.
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I have concerns about EVs generally about being stuck with proprietary tech that can only be fixed by the manufacturer, but they especially apply to Tesla so long as Musk is running things. Being an early adopter is ultimately an act of trust, and I can't think of a person that seems less trustworthy than Musk.
 
TurkeysGhost said:
I have concerns about EVs generally about being stuck with proprietary tech that can only be fixed by the manufacturer, but they especially apply to Tesla so long as Musk is running things. Being an early adopter is ultimately an act of trust, and I can't think of a person that seems less trustworthy than Musk.
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Yup. Other companies rely on their reputation for their continued existence. Musk relies on millions of "fanbois" who think he can never do wrong.
 
My wife and I bought our Model Y before Musk went full Froot Loops and coo coo for coco puffs.

It has honestly been a great car. We wanted an EV, but we also wanted the charging infrastructure.

As for the reported range, yeah, Tesla padded the numbers. The official 'range' of the car is at something like 45mpf, slow acceleration, and likely going downhill to boot. Highway driving really sucks the range away.

And it's weird, because the car absolutely knows the true range. Do a long trip with required supercharging, and it won't (shouldn't) let you run out of charge. We just drive using the battery percentage meter, rather than the miles left meter.
 
They do regular range tests on electric cars in Norway, both summer and winter tests, and Teslas are always at the top of the list both when it comes to range and getting close to the stated range. They even get more range than the stated range during some test.

The Norwegian Car Owner Association has the most extensive tests.

Another one is the car magazine Motor.

I drive mine as taxis, so how far I drive during a shift is registered. Comparing it to the range I have used on the cars, it's not that far off.

So I'm a bit baffled when it comes to this latest reveal that Tesla supposedly lied about their range. It goes against my extensive experience driving Teslas, and the many range tests done on them here in Norway.

Of course, I will now just be labelled "fanboi". Easy to dismiss things you don't like that way.
 
Ryokan said:
So I'm a bit baffled when it comes to this latest reveal that Tesla supposedly lied about their range. It goes against my extensive experience driving Teslas, and the many range tests done on them here in Norway.
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All of the EV makers seem to be facing similar lawsuits right now. I think it is just lawyers doing what lawyers (sometimes) do .

For example, the maker of the EV I drive, BMW, is being sued for allegedly inflating the range estimates for my model. But, I still get the advertised range and my car is seven years old. Also, as far as I can tell, the only range estimate that BMW advertised in the US was the one produced by the EPA. So, unless BMW cheated the system like VW did for their diesels and my car just happened to do much better than all the rest, the lawsuit is bogus.
 
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jadebox said:
All of the EV makers seem to be facing similar lawsuits right now. I think it is just lawyers doing what lawyers (sometimes) do .

For example, the maker of the EV I drive, BMW, is being sued for allegedly inflating the range estimates for my model. But, I still get the advertised range and my car is seven years old. Also, as far as I can tell, the only range estimate that BMW advertised in the US was the one produced by the EPA. So, unless BMW cheated the system like VW did for their diesels and my car just happened to do much better than estimated, the lawsuit is bogus.
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The whole thing is ripe for regulation, but we don't do that in our country, so it's a smorgasbord of BS from all the EV manufacturers fluffing their range estimates.

Seems to me it would be reasonably easy for a regulatory body to do their own calculation to determine a more or less accurate range figure for these various EVs and not allow the manufacturers to make dubious claims, it's more of a political problem than anything technical.
 
It does seem like the calculated range of our Tesla Model 3 Long Range has always been just a bit below what I recall was the advertised 358 miles at the time of purchase in Feb 2022. When I do take it to 100% - which is pretty rare and not recommended for daily use - it projects about 330 miles, which is more than adequate. New ones like mine advertise 333 miles, so perhaps they’ve adjusted it down to reflect real world conditions. Of course, cold temps, road conditions and speeds in excess of posted speed limits will eat into that as well.

Of note: for the battery chemistry on our model, Tesla recommends no more than 80% to 90% charge on a daily basis, and there’s some indication their software has dropped that to just 80% as a daily recommendation. That’s what we charge to for daily use, giving us an estimated 270 miles of range which is more than enough for any conceivable local driving.
 
dann said:
How long does it take to charge it from close to zero to 80%?
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Never done it, but it all depends on your charger setup.

At home, I charge from a 240v 30A outlet, allowing a 24A continuous charge rate. That results in about 23 miles of range per hour. Do the math. Other home charging solution can charge faster. From a standard 120v 15A outlet you get just 3 or 4 mph - really slow but could still approach 50 miles overnight, enough for many people’s commute.

On the road, we try to arrive at the next Supercharger with 15% to 20% remaining, then charge enough to have the same reserve at the next Supercharger, rinse and repeat. Usually results in stops every 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 hours of driving. Charge times typically run 10 to 25 minutes, enough to stretch, walk the dog, go to the bathroom, grab a bite to eat, whatever. Most often, the car announces enough charge before we’re ready to jump back in. With a low state of charge, Superchargers can crank out 1,000 miles of range per hour, but that tapers off as the charge state increases - the final 80% to 100% can take a really long time, which is why virtually no one does that.
 
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