Cont: Electric Vehicles II

[Dabop]

ok sorry i misunderstood

an upgrade to your home panel in the us costs about $5k and since it involves the utility a master electrician must pull a permit, so it’s not a diy job. i would consider that a significant expense

of course as dabop pointed out slow charging options exist without necessarily needing to upgrade your home electrical, whether or not those are options for you depends on your circumstance.

As Rolfe mentioned a 7kw home charger can put in quite a bit of power ( 7kw/32A supply is easily be used on a 60A house feed with monitoring- hell one of my neighbours has one (a Zappi with Harvii 'whole house monitoring) on his offgrid house lol- he's (like me) completely offgrid for electricity and only has a 8kw Solis inverter to boot!!!
8kw is only 34A!!!

It ramps up and down as the household uses more or less power...

It puts about 40kWh a day into his Atto 3 in good solar conditions and can even charge (up to just under 30kWh) overnight from his battery bank (he's got just over 40kWh of battery storage available from his 'house bank' that's recharged by his 10kw solar array...)

40kWh is pretty much a 2/3 charge on his Atto ( its the older Gen 2 model from 2023, with a 60kWh battery pack and a 420km/260 miles range on a full charge- so his 'daytime' 40kWh is 280km/173 miles a day he could travel, if he had to charge at night only, with the houses battery bank being the current limiting factor (he could always add more batteries to the house) lol) he's limited to a 'measly' 210km/130 mles a day travelling distance...
Even in Australia, that's a lot further than I would want to drive to work and back every day...

(if I did that in my Hilux- that's spending about $60 a DAY in fuel!!!!- I'd want a pretty good paying job to do THAT in lol)
A $300 a week fuel bill?? ouch...

 

[Rolfe]

My installer is currently looking at my Zappi, because after nearly two years of trouble-free operation it has started losing touch with the Eddi, which is the master. The cause appears to be that the position of the car, parked beside the Zappi, is interfering with the wifi signal. The weird thing isn't so much that it started out of the blue, but that it doesn't happen every night. I'm wondering if making the Zappi the master would cure this, or just introduce a new set of problems.

 

[Dabop]

My installer is currently looking at my Zappi, because after nearly two years of trouble-free operation it has started losing touch with the Eddi, which is the master. The cause appears to be that the position of the car, parked beside the Zappi, is interfering with the wifi signal. The weird thing isn't so much that it started out of the blue, but that it doesn't happen every night. I'm wondering if making the Zappi the master would cure this, or just introduce a new set of problems.

First thing to look at is if the wifi signal is strong enough, second is how many users are on the same channel- the Zappi range all work (afaik) all are still on the 2.4Ghz range- which is getting VERY overcrowded these days and can cause dropout issues...
Your phone can be the first step- look for your Zappi's network on the phone in your wifi settings on the phone and see what the signal strength at the Zappi charger itself is like )ie standing next to the charger)- a weak signal could cause dropouts, and also be affected by nearby objects (like the car lol)

(I use a network scanner called Fing from Lansweeper on android on my phone from the Playstore- it shows the signal strength. how many devices are using the same channel (theres only a handful of channels on 2.4Ghz)- you don't get 'your own channel' and if you are in a location with lots of nearby houses, the channels may be getting swamped with everyone's devices 'shouting at once' (think of trying to hold a conversation in a crowded pub- that's what can happen on a crowded channel- its hard for 'anyone' to hear lol)

I live on a secluded bush block, with the nearest neighbour over half a kilometre away- and just in my block, theres nearly 15 devices in range (ok, quite a few of those are my security system lol) on four different networks!!!

 

[novaphile]

I have a 7 kw Zappi and I had no idea it could do that! As far as I know it has never actually had to do it.

But before I got the Zappi I was charging the car using a 13A socket that was in the garage when the house was built. I didn't need to install anything in order to run my car. The car was only drawing as much as a fan heater and less than my oven or my electric kettle.

The reason for the Zappi was primarily to be able to take advantage of the insanely cheap overnight electricity tariffs available. For that, one needs to be able to get more than about 10 kwh into the car in the six-hour slot available every night. The Zappi gets about 35 kwh into the car in the same time.

Similar for me.

I already had a 15 amp connection in the wall to service a previous window air-conditioner.

The electrician tapped into that line and put an outdoor double GPO under my carport for me.

By a weird twist of fate, the 'granny charger' for the car, has a 15 amp plug, but only charges at 7 amps.

These days, I charge in the afternoon, after my house battery is full, and the car fills up with free electricity from the solar panels.

 

[acbytesla]

You guys keep talking about the amperage. Could you add the voltage. Are we talking about 15 Amp at 120VAC or 220 VAC?

 

[Dabop]

You guys keep talking about the amperage. Could you add the voltage. Are we talking about 15 Amp at 120VAC or 220 VAC?

Basically, everyone except the US, Canadians and Mexicans is on a nominal 230vAC supply (220-240v) and as most of us, its obvious we are outside the US/north American continent, 230v nominal can be assumed...



(Thats a bit outdated now as Brazil has 'joined the club' in 2025 as well so most of that red in South America is now a light blue lol)
Oh they still have '120v' available in older buildings, but its not legal to install in new construction (much like the Philippines and Indonesia did when they 'dumped the 120' back in the early 2000's...)
They adapted a 'type of' 'euro plug' (type C) called the type N back in 2010 (that had both voltages available in the one socket) but as of 2025, no '120v' at all in new buildings...

So you saw the older 'type N' (120v or 230 in it)

The type C common in parts of Europe only has the two 'outer holes (230v), not the third 'center offset one' which is the 120v...

 

[Dabop]

Similar for me.

I already had a 15 amp connection in the wall to service a previous window air-conditioner.

The electrician tapped into that line and put an outdoor double GPO under my carport for me.

By a weird twist of fate, the 'granny charger' for the car, has a 15 amp plug, but only charges at 7 amps.

These days, I charge in the afternoon, after my house battery is full, and the car fills up with free electricity from the solar panels.

What brand 'granny charger'???
Some with the 15A plug are 'selectable' from 7A/2kw to 15A/3-3.5kw..

 

[jadebox]

Even here in the US where our "granny chargers" are half as fast, I think most people could get along okay using one. That's all I used for almost a year before installing a 50amp outlet for a Level 2 EVSE.

Granted, it was a bit more expensive because Level 1 charging is a little less efficient. And it is certainly a lot nicer now that I don't have to plug in every time I park the car.

After adding the outlet outside, I used it with a 32amp EVSE for a while before having an EVSE installed in the garage. I had to have our electrical panel replaced because there was no room in it for the new circuit, so it was a bit costly.

Unfortunately, ever since I had the EVSE installed in the garage, I haven't been able to actually fit the car in the garage.

 

[Dabop]

The US is a bit weird about 'needing to replace the panel'- in 'most of the world' we just add a external 'breaker box' instead if there are no more 'spare slots' for another MCB in the consumer unit/'fuse box' instead...

If there are no 'spare slots' left (this one has 3 left)

Then one of these is mounted next to the existing consumer unit, is quite legal and 'up to code' as the yanks like to say...

In Australia they are all 'out in the fusebox' mounted on an external wall normally (rather than the UK 'meter outside, consumer unit inside' approach- although you will find the UK approach used in blocks of flats- where the meters are all in the 'plant room' but each flat has its own 'consumer unit' holding the MCBs...)

(thats actually the one from where I used to live lol, an older house from the 1960's)

 

[dirtywick]

a lot of people do add sub panels when they want more slots for branch circuits in the us. it's not necessarily the spare slots, but the load. a 60a or 100a panel in the us goes half as far here because of the voltage. branch circuit receptacles in the us are 15a to 20a at 120vac so the math kind of tells you what charging is available in the us without a dedicated charging circuit

edit

and really in that case in the us you’d want two slots open for a 2 pole breaker to run 240 to the garage, and you may as well go fast charging at that point. which may require a panel upgrade because of the load

 

[Darat]

The US is a bit weird about 'needing to replace the panel'- in 'most of the world' we just add a external 'breaker box' instead if there are no more 'spare slots' for another MCB in the consumer unit/'fuse box' instead...

If there are no 'spare slots' left (this one has 3 left)
View attachment 76869
Then one of these is mounted next to the existing consumer unit, is quite legal and 'up to code' as the yanks like to say...
View attachment 76870
In Australia they are all 'out in the fusebox' mounted on an external wall normally (rather than the UK 'meter outside, consumer unit inside' approach- although you will find the UK approach used in blocks of flats- where the meters are all in the 'plant room' but each flat has its own 'consumer unit' holding the MCBs...)
View attachment 76871
(thats actually the one from where I used to live lol, an older house from the 1960's)

Will we be able to add a fast charger to this setup:



??

 

[Filippo Lippi]

I have a new Nissan Leaf. The EV parts are good, but the HUD is great. Can take or leave the opaque/see through roof

 

[jadebox]

.

The US is a bit weird about 'needing to replace the panel'- in 'most of the world' we just add a external 'breaker box' instead if there are no more 'spare slots' for another MCB in the consumer unit/'fuse box' instead...

That was an option for us here in the US. I don't recall why, but there were good reasons for upgrading the existing panel instead.

 

[Rolfe]

First thing to look at is if the wifi signal is strong enough, second is how many users are on the same channel- the Zappi range all work (afaik) all are still on the 2.4Ghz range- which is getting VERY overcrowded these days and can cause dropout issues...
Your phone can be the first step- look for your Zappi's network on the phone in your wifi settings on the phone and see what the signal strength at the Zappi charger itself is like )ie standing next to the charger)- a weak signal could cause dropouts, and also be affected by nearby objects (like the car lol)

(I use a network scanner called Fing from Lansweeper on android on my phone from the Playstore- it shows the signal strength. how many devices are using the same channel (theres only a handful of channels on 2.4Ghz)- you don't get 'your own channel' and if you are in a location with lots of nearby houses, the channels may be getting swamped with everyone's devices 'shouting at once' (think of trying to hold a conversation in a crowded pub- that's what can happen on a crowded channel- its hard for 'anyone' to hear lol)

I live on a secluded bush block, with the nearest neighbour over half a kilometre away- and just in my block, theres nearly 15 devices in range (ok, quite a few of those are my security system lol) on four different networks!!!

From what you've said it seems to me that maybe someone else near me has added something else on that channel, thus starting the problem. I'm still not clear why it doesn't happen every night, but hopefully my installer will figure out a solution.