Electric universe theories here.

[The Man]

Baby steps, baby steps.

Hey, whatever you need.

We are now making head way.

Who's we? Heck, even I know this is just basic physics and plasma stuff and you don't appear to be making any headway in any direction.

There are electric currents embedded within the "wind", as per the STRONG CURRENT SHEETS (SCS)

EVIDENCE FOR QUASI-ADIABATIC MOTION OF CHARGED PARTICLES IN STRONG CURRENT SHEETS IN THE SOLAR WIND

So what? "embedded within the "wind"" not driving it or coming in from elsewhere.

Form the "DISCUSSION AND CONCLUSIONS"

We assume that multi-scaling is an intrinsic feature of all current sheets that demonstrate a tendency to self-organization in the solar wind.

"demonstrate a tendency to self-organization in the solar wind". So explicitly not externally driven. Your baby steps are just in circles and make you no headway whatsoever. If energy dissipating turbulences and internal self-organizing structures that are generally stationary (as noted in that last paper). Which themselves are just a mere fraction of the solar wind which is itself, in its entirety, just some fraction of the power output of the sun, is all you can point to for an electric sun, then that's just ridiculousness cubed.

 

[jonesdave116]

Hey, whatever you need.



Who's we? Heck, even I know this is just basic physics and plasma stuff and you don't appear to be making any headway in any direction.



So what? "embedded within the "wind"" not driving it or coming in from elsewhere.

Form the "DISCUSSION AND CONCLUSIONS"



"demonstrate a tendency to self-organization in the solar wind". So explicitly not externally driven. Your baby steps are just in circles and make you no headway whatsoever. If energy dissipating turbulences and internal self-organizing structures that are generally stationary (as noted in that last paper). Which themselves are just a mere fraction of the solar wind which is itself, in its entirety, just some fraction of the power output of the sun, is all you can point to for an electric sun, then that's just ridiculousness cubed.

I've already referenced that paper, where they show that the currents sheets must obey quasi-neutrality. Sol has a short memory. Once he is shown to be trivially wrong on one claim he moves on to another.
This current (see what I did there ) gish-gallop stems from him making a complete tit of himself re the dust detections by Ulysses. 'Twas ever thus.

 

[The Man]

I've already referenced that paper, where they show that the currents sheets must obey quasi-neutrality. Sol has a short memory. Once he is shown to be trivially wrong on one claim he moves on to another.
This current (see what I did there ) gish-gallop stems from him making a complete tit of himself re the dust detections by Ulysses. 'Twas ever thus.

And of course that's the thing, the turbulences and instabilities disrupt the quasi-neutrality causing the internal currents to form to restore it. As has been noted several times by several people.

 

[jonesdave116]

And of course that's the thing, the turbulences and instabilities disrupt the quasi-neutrality causing the internal currents to form to restore it. As has been noted several times by several people.

Indeed. The electric fields that Sol thinks real physicists ignore, have been proposed as having to be there to preserve quasi-neutrality in exospheric models since at least the 1970s.

I believe that electric fields are responsible for the plasma frequency. Which is a diagnostic tool used to determine plasma parameters. According to Tusenfem, anyway!

Every time a plasma even thinks about becoming charge separated, an electric field must form to bring the charges back together. Why wouldn't it?

All this stuff that real plasma physicists are supposedly ignoring, has been around far longer than the neo-Velikovskian cult that Sol follows.

 

[Sol88]

I've already referenced that paper, where they show that the currents sheets must obey quasi-neutrality. Sol has a short memory. Once he is shown to be trivially wrong on one claim he moves on to another.
This current (see what I did there ) gish-gallop stems from him making a complete tit of himself re the dust detections by Ulysses. 'Twas ever thus.

You would think I have forgotten the dust…

Unfortunately there is not a whole heap of data.

Dust impact signals on the wind spacecraft not Ulysses but still…

Abstract
We analyze waveforms recorded by the Time Domain Sampler of the WAVES experiment on Wind which are similar to impulsive waveforms observed by the S/WAVES experiment on STEREO. These have been interpreted as dust impacts by Meyer-Vernet et al. and M. L. Kaiser and K. Goetz and extensively analyzed by Zaslavsky et al. The mechanism for coupling the emission to the antennas to produce an electrical signal is still not well understood, however. One suggested mechanism for coupling of the impact to the antenna is that the spacecraft body changes potential with respect to the surrounding plasma but the antennas do not (the body mechanism). Another class of mechanisms, with several forms, is that the charge of the emitted cloud interacts with the antennas. The Wind data show that both are operating.

The time domain shapes of the dust pulses are highly variable but we have little understanding of what provides these shapes. One feature of the STEREO data has been interpreted as impacts from high velocity nanoparticles entrained by the solar wind.

We have not found evidence for fast nanodust in the Wind data. An appreciable fraction of the impacts observed on Wind is consistent with interstellar dust.

The impact rates do not follow a Poisson distribution, expected for random independent events, and this is interpreted as bunching. We have not succeeded in relating this bunching to known meteor showers, and they do not repeat from 1 year to the next. The data suggest bunching by fields in the heliosphere.

Key Points
Dust signals similar to those on STEREO are observed on Wind
Dust is bunched
A significant fraction is interplanetary

We have not been able to associate these bunches with known meteor showers, and do not expect to, as the maxima do not repeat from 1 year to the next. All of this is consistent with the idea that the bunching occurs in the heliosphere, perhaps in response to the v × B electric field which is necessary to allow the solar wind to flow.

This was also observed at comets.


Unfortunately for the likes of jd116 and his fan club this indicates how important charged dust is.

The sensitivity of an antenna similar to the STEREO antennas is found to be less than that estimated by Pantellini et al. [2012a, 2012b] and Zaslavsky et al. [2012]. This, with the remark above, indicates that the flux of nanodust at 1 AU has not yet been reliably established.

So some work to do in the collection of data. New mission?


The Parker solar probe maybe able to detect nano dust with its instruments.

Though no dedicated dust detectors.

Happy to keep going, though most of the data would be from the Rosetta mission.

 

[Sol88]

Indeed. The electric fields that Sol thinks real physicists ignore, have been proposed as having to be there to preserve quasi-neutrality in exospheric models since at least the 1970s.

I believe that electric fields are responsible for the plasma frequency. Which is a diagnostic tool used to determine plasma parameters. According to Tusenfem, anyway!

Every time a plasma even thinks about becoming charge separated, an electric field must form to bring the charges back together. Why wouldn't it?

All this stuff that real plasma physicists are supposedly ignoring, has been around far longer than the neo-Velikovskian cult that Sol follows.

The ELECTRIC UNIVERSE proponents say there is an ELECTRIC Field centred on the Sun… a comet is a rocky body discharging in the electric field of the Sun.

You poo pooed it, sport.

perhaps in response to the v × B electric field which is necessary to allow the solar wind to flow.

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2015JA021124

Pop back over into the electric comet thread….

 

[Sol88]

And of course that's the thing, the turbulences and instabilities disrupt the quasi-neutrality causing the internal currents to form to restore it. As has been noted several times by several people.

That is the electric Universe.

Currents flowing everywhere to try and maintain charge balance.

Ie. electromagnetism is far more import than gravity.

 

[steenkh]

Ie. electromagnetism is far more import than gravity.

For what? As you have utterly failed in showing that the Sun gets its energy from outside, we have to conclude that the only viable mechanism that drives the Sun is gravity after all.

 

[Sol88]

For what? As you have utterly failed in showing that the Sun gets its energy from outside, we have to conclude that the only viable mechanism that drives the Sun is gravity after all.

Cart before the horse there cobber.

Abstract
Recent accumulation of a critical mass of observational material from different spacecraft complete with the enhanced abilities of numerical methods have led to a boom of studies revealing the high complexity of processes occurring in the heliosphere.

Views on the solar wind filling the interplanetary medium have dramatically developed from the beginning of the space era. A 2-D picture of the freely expanding solar corona and non-interacting solar wind structures described as planar or spherically-symmetric objects has dominated for decades.

Meanwhile, the scientific community gradually moved to a modern understanding of the importance of the 3-D nature of heliospheric processes and their studies via MHD/kinetic simulations, as well as observations of large-scale flows and streams both in situ and remotely, in white light and/or via interplanetary scintillations.

The new 3-D approach has provided an opportunity to understand the dynamics of heliospheric structures and processes that could not even be imagined before within the 2-D paradigm. In this review, we highlight a piece of the puzzle, showing the evolution of views on processes related to current sheets, plasmoids, blobs and flux ropes of various scales and origins in the heliosphere. The first part of the review focuses on introducing these plasma structures, discussing their key properties, and paying special attention to their observations in different space plasmas.

Current Sheets, Plasmoids and Flux Ropes in the Heliosphere


So you are a little premature in your assertion. heliospheric structures and processes that could not even be imagined before within the 2-D paradigm

You up for a paradigm change?

JD116 sure as the Earth revolves around the Sun is going to have to. Alfven 1938...

 

[Sol88]

The complexity involved within such structures makes the adoption of the fully 3D approach essential since several important pieces of information are inevitably lost by adopting models with explicit symmetries (planar and/or spherical).

Real plasma physics, tusenfem.

 

[Sol88]

Your ignorance shows through again. Any time you're doing large scale computations, you are necessarily doing an approximation. Pretty much the entire field of computational physics is approximations. All numerical integration techniques (a term I'm positive you don't actually understand) are approximations. Being an approximation isn't a problem, if you do it right. When you know what you're doing, you can figure out quite well what the accuracy of your approximation is.

Plasma physicists, the real ones, know what they're doing. The EU nutjobs don't. Which is why they don't even do approximations. They do bad poetry.

Oh, really? I think your lack of comprehension may play a role here.

CSs, FRs/MIs, and plasmoids/blobs of various origins and scales exist in the turbulent solar wind. Therefore, we provide an analysis of the main properties of solar wind turbulence, from large (MHD) to smaller (kinetic) scales for convenience of the readers interested in numerical simulations. Here, we particularly focus on the most recent advances in kinetic numerical simulations (e.g., Servidio et al. (2015)). Owing to the weak collisionality, plasma turbulence naturally evolves in the fully 6D phase-space and excites a variety of genuinely kinetic effects in the particle VDF

(Valentini et al. 2016; Servidio et al. 2017; Pezzi et al. 2018), ranging from beams along the background magnetic field to a highly-structured
velocity-space, as recently found via the Hermite decomposition of the particle VDF.

 

[Sol88]

The transition from the 2D to 3D models to describe complex 3D processes and non-planar structures in the solar wind is the next step of the development of heliospheric physics.

The ELECTRIC UNIVERSE.

 

[Sol88]

Originally Posted by Alfven, 1939
The correlation of the magnetic storms and aurorae with the solar activity indicates that they are due to some agent emitted from the sun. As this agent causes magnetic and electric disturbances on the earth, it probably consists of charged particles. But, as Schuster has shown, the emission of a sufficient amount of particles, all having the same sign, is impossible because it would give rise to an enormous space charge. This difficulty is avoided if the emitted agent is assumed to consist of the equal amount of positive and negative particles.


Consequently the general nature of the current system during the main phase of a magnetic storm must be somewhat as follows. The stream approaching the earth contains positive and negative charge in equal amounts so that the electric current is zero. Through the action of the magnetic field of the earth the paths of the positives and of the negatives become differentiated, but until the particles reach the forbidden region, the space charge is always zero because the positives and negatives neutralize each other.
So you, and the idiot Scott, are saying Alfven didn't know what he was talking about, yes? Good to know where the Velikovskians stand re Alfven!

jd116

Alfven would have loved a couple probes.

Abstract Our understanding of processes occurring in the heliosphere historically began with reduced dimensionality - one-dimensional (1D) and two-dimensional (2D) sketches and models, which aimed to illustrate views on large-scale structures in the solar wind. However, any reduced dimensionality vision of the heliosphere limits the possible interpretations of in-situ observations.

Accounting for non-planar structures, e.g. current sheets, magnetic islands, flux ropes as well as plasma bubbles, is decisive to shed the light on a variety of phenomena, such as particle acceleration and energy dissipation.

Current Sheets, Plasmoids and Flux Ropes in the Heliosphere

So your assertion based of a 1938 paper is not correct, unsurprisingly!

 

[Ziggurat]

Oh, really? I think your lack of comprehension may play a role here.

Bwahahahaha!

No. You are clueless. You have no idea how simulations of any kind are done. You don’t even know what the term “numerical integration” even means, and why it’s relevant.

 

[Sol88]

Bwahahahaha!

No. You are clueless. You have no idea how simulations of any kind are done. You don’t even know what the term “numerical integration” even means, and why it’s relevant.

Don't really have to. Don't really see me publishing any papers anytime soon.

what I do understand is the premise...one initially considers various possible 3D topologies occurring in the real space plasmas. Plasma instabilities.

Meanwhile, we can conclude that employing contemporary 2D models and corresponding simplified methods widely used in space science allows general understanding of the numerous complex processes if one initially considers various possible 3D topologies occurring in the real space plasmas.

The transition from the 2D to 3D models to describe complex 3D processes and non-planar structures in the solar wind is the next step of the development of heliospheric physics.

Hope you can understand. As the "expert" here seems to hold dearly to the 2D, oh and jd116. Jd116 seems to be stuck in the past as well.

 

[Sol88]

Just to clarify, JD116 is the solar wind in your minds eye...still as Alfven described?

In this review we have depicted the dynamics of magnetic and plasma structures, such as CSs, FRs/MIs and plasmoids/blobs, and their impact on the surrounding medium, especially related to particle energization.

The complexity involved within such structures makes the adoption of the fully 3D approach essential since several important pieces of information
are inevitably lost by adopting models with explicit symmetries (planar and/or spherical).

 

[steenkh]

Cart before the horse there cobber.

Current Sheets, Plasmoids and Flux Ropes in the Heliosphere


So you are a little premature in your assertion. heliospheric structures and processes that could not even be imagined before within the 2-D paradigm

You up for a paradigm change?

What paradigm change? You claimed that electrical forces were stronger than gravity, and I pointed out that your idea of a great battery in the sky has fallen flat, leaving gravity as the driver of the electrical phenomena in the Sun. Just where in those quotes does it say otherwise?

Your quote state that heliospheric structures and processes are more complicated than previously modelled. Doesn’t sound much of a major paradigm change to me, and in particular, it does not even hint that gravity is not driving it all.

 

[jonesdave116]

Just to clarify, JD116 is the solar wind in your minds eye...still as Alfven described?

The solar wind, as Alfven described (quoting earlier work from Schuster) is net neutral. And there is nobody who understands even basic astro and plasma physics who disagrees that it must be so. It is impossible for it not to be so. As should be obvious to anyone with a clue. One can only surmise, therefore, that those claiming otherwise do not have a clue. And, given that these claims only exist in the minds of unqualified laymen, and not in the scientific literature, they can be safely ignored in the same way that flat earth is ignored.

If the Sun is losing an excess of one charge over the other, how is it not charging up to the opposite charge? What stops it? How does it happen? Want to point us to a peer-reviewed paper?

 

[jonesdave116]

jd116

Alfven would have loved a couple probes.

Current Sheets, Plasmoids and Flux Ropes in the Heliosphere

So your assertion based of a 1938 paper is not correct, unsurprisingly!

Is a lie. Nobody is claiming that the solar wind is a net current. Learn to understand what you read.

 

[jonesdave116]

You would think I have forgotten the dust…

Unfortunately there is not a whole heap of data.

Dust impact signals on the wind spacecraft not Ulysses but still…







This was also observed at comets.


Unfortunately for the likes of jd116 and his fan club this indicates how important charged dust is.




So some work to do in the collection of data. New mission?


The Parker solar probe maybe able to detect nano dust with its instruments.

Though no dedicated dust detectors.

Happy to keep going, though most of the data would be from the Rosetta mission.

And more nonsense. You brought up the Ulysses dust measurements to support the impossible electric sun woo. Which requires electrons, not dust, to be incoming. Not only are electrons negative, with a huge charge to mass ratio, the dust was positive!
All you are doing is proving, yet again, that you haven't got a clue what you are quoting.