Electric universe theories here.

[Sol88]

How does this resemble a Birkeland current?

View attachment 47696

Hint: it doesn't.

The Origin of Switchbacks in the Solar Corona: Linear Theory
Zank, G. P. et al (2020)
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-4357/abb828

4.**
Besides the radial magnetic field of the switchback, the remaining magnetic field components and plasma variables can be computed. Specifically, we model the switchback observed on the first PSP encounter between at 11:43:45 and 11:45:35, 2018 November 6, and compare the model results to the observations.

The velocity increases abruptly in going from the ambient plasma to the switchback (a “jet”), the switchback temperature and pressure are higher and the density lower than the surrounding ambient plasma, and the plasma beta increases modestly over the ambient value. These characteristics are both qualitatively and quantitatively in very good agreement with the observed example. Furthermore, the model results suggest that a more detailed comparison could reasonably be made with the other switchback examples presented in Figure 1.

5.**
Finally, to address both the aggregation or clustering of switchbacks (Dudok de Wit et al. 2020) and their sometimes complicated structure (e.g., our Figure 1 or Figure 3 of Kasper et al. 2019), we consider multiple closely spaced switchbacks created by interchange reconnection with numerous open and loop magnetic field lines. Their evolution yields a complex, highly aggregated group of switchbacks at e.g., 35 R⊙. One hypothetical time series for a trajectory through an aggregate of switchbacks yields a sheath-like structure on either side of a broad box-like switchback structure. The sheaths contain numerous large-amplitude radial magnetic field and velocity fluctuations that exhibit large and rapid deflections. Other example solutions correspond to many large-amplitude radial magnetic field and plasma fluctuations without a single identifiable broad switchback structure.

Where are the electrons in these "jets" or "sheaths", jd116?

 

[jonesdave116]

Where are the electrons in these "jets" or "sheaths", jd116?

And none of that resembles a Birkeland current in the slightest. Why do you think the only people claiming that these are Birkeland currents are unqualified amateurs?
I asked a very simple question, based on something you might actually understand - a picture. How does that resemble a Birkeland current? It doesn't. And nobody with a clue is claiming otherwise.

 

[jonesdave116]

Where are the electrons in these "jets" or "sheaths", jd116?

Okay, maybe a static picture was too complicated. Try the one at this page;

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddar...plaining-parker-solar-probe-s-magnetic-puzzle

In what universe does that resemble a Birkeland current? Notice which way they are going? The bright thing to the left is the Sun, BTW.

 

[Sol88]

Parker Solar Probe Evidence for Scattering of Electrons in the Young Solar Wind by Narrowband Whistler-mode Waves

After ∼10:45 UT, when the magnetic field is less variable, there are no whistler waves and the electrons are strongly field-aligned. In the intervals with strong whistlers, the pitch angle distributions are broadened. The normalized heat flux, on average, is smaller than in Figure 1, most often within the switchbacks when the whistlers are intense. As in the previous example, increases in the core electron temperature are observed with the most intense waves. In several cases, the temperature increased from ∼25 eV to ∼40 to 60 eV, suggesting that the waves may also heat core electrons.

Panels (a) and (b) show narrow, field-aligned distributions streaming away from the Sun over energies of ∼100 eV to 1 keV, consistent with strahl.

'Spose we could add strahl's to the jets, sheaths, flux rope analogy for Birkeland Currents.

Quasi neutrality is maintained...just not in any of the above phenomena

 

[Sol88]

Okay, maybe a static picture was too complicated. Try the one at this page;

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddar...plaining-parker-solar-probe-s-magnetic-puzzle

In what universe does that resemble a Birkeland current? Notice which way they are going? The bright thing to the left is the Sun, BTW.

Yeah,nah fair call!

Zank led the development of the first switchbacks model. His model suggests not one, but two magnetic whips are born during reconnection: One travels down to the solar surface and one zips out into the solar wind. Like an electric wire made from a bundle of smaller wires, each magnetic loop is made of many magnetic field lines. “What happens is, each of these individual wires reconnects, so you produce a whole slew of switchbacks in a short period of time,” Zank said.*

Zank and his team modelled the very first switchback Parker Solar Probe observed, on Nov. 6, 2018. This first model fit the observations well, encouraging the team to develop it further. The team’s results were published in The Astrophysical Journal on Oct. 26, 2020.*

Another group of scientists, led by University of Maryland physicist James Drake, agrees on the import of interchange reconnection. But they differ when it comes to the nature of switchbacks themselves. Where others say switchbacks are a kink in a magnetic field line, Drake and his team suggest what Parker is observing is the signature of a kind of magnetic structure, called a flux rope.*

In Drake’s simulations, the kink in the field didn’t travel very far before fizzling out. “Magnetic field lines are like rubber bands, they like to snap back to their original shape,” he explained. But the scientists knew the switchbacks had to be stable enough to travel out to where Parker Solar Probe could see them. On the other hand, flux ropes –*which are thought to be core components of many solar eruptions –*are sturdier. Picture a magnetic striped candy cane. That’s a flux rope: strips of magnetic field wrapped around a bundle of more magnetic field.*

Drake and his team think flux ropes could be an important part of explaining switchbacks, since they should be stable enough to travel out to where Parker Solar Probe observed them. Their study – published in Astronomy and Astrophysics on Oct. 8, 2020 – lays the groundwork for building a flux rope-based model to describe the origins of switchbacks.*

Switchbacks Science: Explaining Parker Solar Probe’s Magnetic Puzzle

'Spose we could add strahl's to the jets, sheaths, flux rope analogy for Birkeland Currents.

sol88

 

[jonesdave116]

Parker Solar Probe Evidence for Scattering of Electrons in the Young Solar Wind by Narrowband Whistler-mode Waves






'Spose we could add strahl's to the jets, sheaths, flux rope analogy for Birkeland Currents.

Quasi neutrality is maintained...just not in any of the above phenomena

Yes it is. Learn plasma physics, and stop talking out of your backside. None of those things are anything to do with Birkeland currents, and nobody with a clue is claiming otherwise. Just unqualified mythologists. No need to take any more notice of them than flat earthers;

The density in the strahl also increases; however, the density of the halo plateaus and even decreases at perihelion, leading to a large strahl/halo ratio near the Sun. As at greater heliocentric distances, the core has a sunward drift relative to the proton frame, which balances the current carried by the strahl, satisfying the zero-current condition necessary to maintain quasi-neutrality.

&

The solar wind that flows out from the Sun contains an admixture of ions and electrons, with charge neutrality maintained on all macroscopic scales within the wind. Intuitively, the simplest such solution would consist of a thermal distribution of electrons with the same bulk velocity as the solar wind ions. However, observations instead reveal that solar wind electrons have complex distribution functions, with not only a thermal core population, but also a suprathermal halo population, and often an additional suprathermal magnetic field-aligned population known as the strahl (Feldman et al.1975; Pilipp et al. 1987; Rosenbauer et al. 1977; Maksimovic et al. 2005; Štverák et al. 2009). These populations satisfy not only local quasi-neutrality (Σ Z_in_i = n_e), but also the zero current condition (Σ Z_in_iv_i = n_ev_e) required to ensure quasi neutrality globally, with these conditions typically achieved by opposite drifts of the core and suprathermal populations with respect to the ion bulk flow (Feldman et al. 1975; Scime et al. 1994a; Štverák et al. 2009)

Electrons in the Young Solar Wind: First Results from the Parker Solar Probe
Halekas, J. L. et al (2019)
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-4365/ab4cec/pdf

So, just accept the fact that you don't understand plasma physics worth a damn, and move on. Take the clown Scott with you, while you're at it.

 

[jonesdave116]

Yeah,nah fair call!

Switchbacks Science: Explaining Parker Solar Probe’s Magnetic Puzzle

sol88

And? Zero Birkeland currents. As I explained. Not. Even. Close.

And in magnetic reconnection, if something is blasted away from the Sun, then there must be something blasted in the opposite direction. As one can see on videos of the process occurring on the Sun.
So, are you suggesting that the Sun electrically powers itself?

Need I remind you that your impossible 'model' requires electrons drifting in, at half-rat power, from the heliopause? Somehow ignoring a magnetic field headed in the opposite direction at anything from ~ 300-800 km/s! In which universe is that possible? Only a universe inhabited by Velikovskian civil and electrical engineers! Probably best if they stick to the day jobs, eh?

 

[MRC_Hans]

Perhaps it is time to stop feeding this troll. It is certainly not here to learn anything.

Hans

 

[Sol88]

Sure, if you know what that means.



Well, you can call them unicorns, for all I care.
I am going to call them a "flux tube" or an "Evershed flow" or a "Birkeland current".
I don't really know what "force field aligned currents" are, and "power cables" is electronics and that is another department at my institute.
So, there is no one-term to call this collection, they have their own names because of a reason.



Nope, we need (plasma) physically correct names, otherwise we get non-sensical discussions, as is clear from this whole thread.



I have dealt with lots of stuff.



Nope, YOUR insistence that everything is the same, when it is clearly not the case, makes it look TO YOU that the names are "all over the shop".



No, a sheet is a sheet and a tube is a tube, they are topologically different. NOT EVERYTHING IS THE SAME.



If you keep your eyes closed it is difficult to see anything. If you are living in Rotterdam it is difficult to see a temple in Bangkok.



Wow, we agree on something.



There are NO CABLES in space, and now they are supposed to be nested too?
As this "big circuit" driving the Sun is an EU idea, and YOU are (one of the last) proponents, it is onto YOU to show that it works somehow.

Birkeland current.

This is the name for electric currents in astrophysical plasma’s.

Saves time on writing.

Flux tubes, flux ropes, Field aligned currents, strahll, stringy things, jets, sheaths…

List is pretty big.

The turbulent solar wind is threaded with electric currents, Birkeland current.

 

[Sol88]

We could call them unicorns…

Not so controversial.

 

[Sol88]

And? Zero Birkeland currents. As I explained. Not. Even. Close.

And in magnetic reconnection, if something is blasted away from the Sun, then there must be something blasted in the opposite direction. As one can see on videos of the process occurring on the Sun.
So, are you suggesting that the Sun electrically powers itself?

Need I remind you that your impossible 'model' requires electrons drifting in, at half-rat power, from the heliopause? Somehow ignoring a magnetic field headed in the opposite direction at anything from ~ 300-800 km/s! In which universe is that possible? Only a universe inhabited by Velikovskian civil and electrical engineers! Probably best if they stick to the day jobs, eh?

You forgotten the electric field, again.

 

[steenkh]

Birkeland current.

This is the name for electric currents in astrophysical plasma’s.

By now it is clear that Sol88 does not use the same terminology as everyone else. He doesn’t care if he is dealing with Birkeland currents at all. If there is electromagnetic forces involved in a phenomenon, it is easier to just use the term Birkeland current. That saves Sol88 a lot of typing, and certainly a lot of thinking,

 

[tusenfem]

Flux tubes, flux ropes, Field aligned currents, strahll, stringy things, jets, sheaths…

All different things, that CANNOT be gathered under one name, otherwise it would have been done.

Too busy with real plasma physics discussions at ISSI Bern, so toodles!

 

[Sol88]

All different things, that CANNOT be gathered under one name, otherwise it would have been done.

Too busy with real plasma physics discussions at ISSI Bern, so toodles!

Jeez Louise…thought carked it!

Real plasma physics…awesomeness. Have fun then, tot straks!

Anywhoo

 

[Sol88]

Flux tubes, flux ropes, Field aligned currents, strahll, stringy things, jets, sheaths…

sol88

All different things, that CANNOT be gathered under one name, otherwise it would have been done.

a space plasma physicist.

Flux tubes, flux ropes, Field aligned currents, strahll, stringy things, jets, sheaths…Subsets of a BIRKELAND CURRENT

As is plasma, a subset of gas, apparently.

 

[Sol88]

Along with my favourite plasma toything, DOUBLE LAYERS a subset of ubiquitous ELECTRIC FIELDS in astrophysical plasma’s.

These require electric currents.

Plasmoids are up there as well. They even behave similarly as double layers when electric currents are in play.

Somewhere out there the battery you are “looking” for is a INFINITE amount of electric fields in play.

You’ve just divide gravity by zero (black holes/big bang/ the singularity).

We multiply ELECTRIC FIELDS by infinity…

That’ll make your search touch more difficult, so why bother?

Real plasma physics based on any model of MHD is cactus, dead in the water, a furphy, a nice approximation back in the dark ages of astrophysical collisionless plasmas.

Thing I’ve heard is the maths is difficult. Need a big CPU to run it (computational expensive).

So just approximate.

Seems kinetic plasma in cell is bit more like observed reality. Especially where it matters.

Electrons, fields aligned. A Birkeland current.

 

[Steve]

In this thread alone it has been established beyond all scientific doubt that there are actually no electric universe theories. Ignorant ramblings do not a theory make.

We have exactly one proponent of such a concept in this thread who is either:
a) willfully ignorant
b) genuinely ignorant
or
c) should be deathly afraid of billy goats.

Regardless, the thread has become rather repetitious and there seems to be little more to learn here even from the actual scientists participating. And the inane comments from our so-called electric universe proponent have ceased to have any entertainment value. So, as much as I appreciate the successful efforts to combat the persistent ignorance provided by Sol88 I think my time in this thread has run its course.

ta ta.

 

[jonesdave116]

Along with my favourite plasma toything, DOUBLE LAYERS a subset of ubiquitous ELECTRIC FIELDS in astrophysical plasma’s.

These require electric currents.

Plasmoids are up there as well. They even behave similarly as double layers when electric currents are in play.

Somewhere out there the battery you are “looking” for is a INFINITE amount of electric fields in play.

You’ve just divide gravity by zero (black holes/big bang/ the singularity).

We multiply ELECTRIC FIELDS by infinity…

That’ll make your search touch more difficult, so why bother?

Real plasma physics based on any model of MHD is cactus, dead in the water, a furphy, a nice approximation back in the dark ages of astrophysical collisionless plasmas.

Thing I’ve heard is the maths is difficult. Need a big CPU to run it (computational expensive).

So just approximate.

Seems kinetic plasma in cell is bit more like observed reality. Especially where it matters.

Electrons, fields aligned. A Birkeland current.

Ignorance writ large.

 

[jonesdave116]

In this thread alone it has been established beyond all scientific doubt that there are actually no electric universe theories. Ignorant ramblings do not a theory make.

We have exactly one proponent of such a concept in this thread who is either:
a) willfully ignorant
b) genuinely ignorant
or
c) should be deathly afraid of billy goats.

Regardless, the thread has become rather repetitious and there seems to be little more to learn here even from the actual scientists participating. And the inane comments from our so-called electric universe proponent have ceased to have any entertainment value. So, as much as I appreciate the successful efforts to combat the persistent ignorance provided by Sol88 I think my time in this thread has run its course.

ta ta.

Indeed. Ignorance is understandable. Wilful ignorance is a lifestyle choice, and can elicit no sympathy.

 

[Ziggurat]

Along with my favourite plasma toything, DOUBLE LAYERS a subset of ubiquitous ELECTRIC FIELDS in astrophysical plasma’s.

These require electric currents.

Not really.

Double layers are formed by currents, but then the formation of the double layer acts to STOP the current which formed them. The electric field acts to counteract another force (from gravity, a thermal gradient, etc) which previously drove the current which formed the double layer. Once a double layer has been formed, then no more current is needed.

Somewhere out there the battery you are “looking” for is a INFINITE amount of electric fields in play.

You’ve just divide gravity by zero (black holes/big bang/ the singularity).

We multiply ELECTRIC FIELDS by infinity…

If I thought you were actually trying to do math, I would have to reach the conclusion that you were having a seizure, because this is incoherent garbage.

But you don't do math, so my best guess is that this is supposed to be poetry. Really bad poetry.

Thing I’ve heard is the maths is difficult.

For you, addition and multiplication are difficult.

Need a big CPU to run it (computational expensive).

So just approximate.

Your ignorance shows through again. Any time you're doing large scale computations, you are necessarily doing an approximation. Pretty much the entire field of computational physics is approximations. All numerical integration techniques (a term I'm positive you don't actually understand) are approximations. Being an approximation isn't a problem, if you do it right. When you know what you're doing, you can figure out quite well what the accuracy of your approximation is.

Plasma physicists, the real ones, know what they're doing. The EU nutjobs don't. Which is why they don't even do approximations. They do bad poetry.