Electric universe theories here.

[Sol88]

Are you suggesting that Lerner's 4-part Youtube woo on black holes being plasmoids, is not worthy of being classed as current 'research'?

As far as I know they are using the DENSE PLASMA FOCUS as the model for “black holes” and AGN.

Same as the sun being modeled of a transistor effect, vacuum gas discharge tube.

Not an electrostatic pith ball.

 

[Reality Check]

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - insane lies about physics

....

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - insane lies about physics!
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma continued in the electric universe theories thread.
Sol88's insane lies in this post.

1. The physics is there there is a good approximation for some plasmas where magnetic fields are treated as frozen into the plasma.
   That was the subject of Hannes Alfvén speech at a 1986 conference that EU cranks lie about. Alfvén said that the approximation was correct but overused. Since then physics has progressed and the frozen in approximation is much less used.
   
2. The physics is that plasma (a partially ionized gas) can treated as a fluid like any gas.
   We add electromagnetism for the ionized component, thus magnetohydrodynamics that Hannes Alfvén started and got a Nobel Prize for.
   
3. Magnetohydrodynamics is not Sol88's insane lie of "electrons as a fluid".
   MHD is elections, ions and neutral particles as a fluid.
   
4. "mainstreams maths stays easy" insanity from Sol88.
   The math in plasma physics is hard. Certainly too hard for the ignorant and demented Thunderbolts cult and its ignorant and deluded supporters because they only lie about plasma physics !
   
5. Astronomers generally call the gas and plasma that they research gas.

 

[Reality Check]

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - insane lies about the EU and physics

...

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - insane lies about the EU and physics!
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma continued in the electric universe theories thread.

Sol88's demented Thunderbolts cult are clear that they have the insane delusion that stellar black holes and the supermassive black holes in AGN are plasmoids (balls of light emitting plasma)

Sol88's insanity of citing a Wikipedia article that shows he is persisting with insane lies about physics. Dense plasma focus

A dense plasma focus (DPF) is a type of plasma generating system originally developed as a fusion power device starting in the early 1960s. The system demonstrated scaling laws that suggested it would not be useful in the commercial power role, and since the 1980s it has been used primarily as a fusion teaching system, and as a source of neutrons and X-rays.

A plasma generating system that we have to build machines to produce and never seen in nature.

An insane lie from Sol88 that this is the same as Scott's "Sun as a transistor effect" delusion.

An insane lie from Sol88 that the EU does not treat the Sun as an "electrostatic pith ball".Sol88's insane religious dogma that comets are actual rock (no ices or a demented fantasy of "little ices") blasted from rocky planets by electric discharges between planets including recent times (witnessed by us!) and that these rocks discharge in a massive solar electric field. This insanely tears the rock apart and puts gas and dust into the coma and forms their insanity of jets as electrical discharges !

 

[JeanTate]

As long as you keep the magnetic field frozen in and the electrons as a fluid... mainstreams maths stays easy and we can still call plasma a gas.

And this is relevant to electric universe theories (the topic of this thread) how, exactly?

More bluntly, is this spam?

 

[Reality Check]

A summary of Donald Scott's EU delusions supplied from Sol88's posts

A summary of Donald Scott's EU delusions supplied from Sol88's posts.

Sol88 cited Scott's crank Birkeland Currents: A Force-Free Field-Aligned Model (PDF) paper.
Donald Scott spews ignorant delusions in Fig. 10 in that PDF, etc..

Sol88 wrote "sun being modeled of a transistor effect" and this is Scott's A Solar Junction Transistor Mechanism delusion.

1. Scott has an obvious delusion that the Twin Jet Nebula is a z-pinch when a z-pinch is a pinch in a flow of plasma and plasma is being emitted outward in jets for the nebula.
   There is no flow of plasma through the central star in the Twin Jet Nebula.
2. Scott has the insane delusion that he can label light-year scale features in an image as double layers. Double layers have scales of a few tens of Debye lengths which is 10 meters in the interstellar medium and 10,000 meters in the intergalactic medium. Double layers do not form in turbulent conditions and we have jets crashing into the interstellar medium.
3. Scott has the insane delusion that the clouds in the atmosphere of Saturn are plasma.
4. Scott has a probable delusion that pinches are always points as in the Twin Jet Nebula image.
   The structure of Birkeland currents around the Earth (which is the only place they have been detected) is a thick sheet of currents "pinching" to a thinner layer of currents as they flow through the ionosphere and expanding afterward.
5. Scott has the insane delusion that there is a double layer above the surface of the Sun.
   Debye length and turbulence as above suggests no such DL exists.

 

[JeanTate]

As far as I know they are using the DENSE PLASMA FOCUS as the model for “black holes” and AGN.

Same as the sun being modeled of a transistor effect, vacuum gas discharge tube.

Not an electrostatic pith ball.

And this is relevant to electric universe theories (the topic of this thread) how, exactly?

More bluntly, is this spam? If so, why are you posting spam?

 

[tusenfem]

As long as you keep the magnetic field frozen in and the electrons as a fluid... mainstreams maths stays easy and we can still call plasma a gas.

and again you shine brightly in ignorance

 

[Steve001]

More bluntly, is this spam? If so, why are you posting spam?

Perhaps he lives in Hawaii.

 

[JeanTate]

I wonder what Plasma Cosmology actually is. Would Peratt's interpretation, with his failed galaxy model, and gigaparsec electric currents have been approved by Alfven? Falthammar? Lerner? It seems to me that PC is whatever the beholder wishes it to be. Michael Mozina is continually trying to conflate EU & PC. He knows EU is Velikovskian woo, but claims that people like Alfven and Peratt, neither of whom believe/d such garbage, are on the same side as EU woo. Despite Peratt calling it a 'cult'!

Whatever Plasma Cosmology is, it can be easily distinguished from EUt ... there is the presentation of hypotheses/models/etc (all quantitative), presentation of objective, independently verifiable quantitative experimental results and observations, there is logic and reason, sources are cited, ... in short, the scientific method at work. All this is published. Critiques etc are welcome. Yes, it may be almost entirely in the past. Yes, it may contain many (or no) flaws, of many possible kinds.

As noted above, a common tactic (or stance) of those promoting Velikovsky nonsense is to blur the differences between EUt and plasma cosmology; also as noted above, this is dishonest. Dishonesty has no place in science.

 

[JeanTate]

Here is a selection of posts by Sol88, in this thread, since its revival ~a month ago.

No, not really.

This is about the right application of standard plasma physics.

See the papers above.

But

If the electric force is the dominant organising force on the universe, then why all the mathamagical constructs to save a Cleary outdated theory, the Big Bang.

Two things sport.

Can gravity attract or repulse?

So the very fact the electric force can do BOTH makes gravity a manifestation of the electric force.

Gravity A second cousin to the electric force.

Secondly

What I don’t get is the mainstream gravity centric mob don’t get basic electromagnetism?

I’m mean the stories linked to above are just outstanding in there ignorance.

...some mysterious force is accelerating these particle to tremendous energies....

Fair dinkum champ...

Latest one I’ve read no invokes tangled spaghetti like magnetic fields as the cause of the electric field and somewhere along the line an electric current the length of the jet is produced/sustained.


But first time of seen the electric field as the cause...

Electric Universe precursor...

Outplayed by a crank!

How’s it feel?

Or you going to argue the toss? Bit like Thornhill predicting two flashes from deep impact, as observed.

How much ice was mainstream expecting again?

Not so good was it? One of the reasons the Principal Investigator, said quite famously, we once thought comets were mostly ice, although our understanding is evolving towards mostly...ROCK.

No porky pies, that’s what he said

Mainstreams got nothing left in the tank.

Oh, crap.

You’ve gone and wheeled out the big guns now.

Einstein... can’t argue with that.

You win.

Einstein, plasma ignoramus.

Like others here.

Dude was a tripper.

The Electric Universe is by definition Filamentary, as we observe.

Mainstream need the fudge factor to "save" the big bang!

Dark Matter, Dark Energy.....

Marklund convection




You mob... are completely useless.

There is the MOST efficient means to accumulate matter within a plasma, wich is 99.6% of the Universe.

Absolutely and completely NO NEED for dark matter, dark energy.

BUT IT IS REQUIRED TO SAVE EINSTEIN and keep mainstream plebs in a job.

You invoked mathamagical constructs that have no basis in reality to save a falsified theory.

You going to email Göran Marklund and tell him his all WOO?

the right application in the right situation.

Plasma physics in a plasma universe!

So, you, mainstream

Black holes, the ultimate gravity monster!

How do they suck everything and blow stuff out!

Have a crack!

Ignoring the flippancy, ignorance, downright wrong statements (several quite dishonest, given Sol88's own previous posts), etc, what does tell us about the topic of this thread, electric universe theories?

Although there are no unequivocal, direct statements, I find it hard to think that Sol88 differs from the core EUt proponents (e.g. Thornhill) in rejecting General Relativity.

There are some statements in which Sol88 embraces the Velikovsky nonsense that is the heart of EUts.

There is no credible presentation of anything quantitative, in terms of an EUt, or hypothesis, or model.

There are a lot of quotes (many unsourced), which have been conclusively shown to be misleading, cherry-picked, or downright wrong.

There is a reliance on images etc which are invalid because Sol88 has not explained how they could be obtained if Relativity is rejected.

In short, straight from the EU playbook: nothing quantitative, no analyses, dishonesty, and so on.

Can someone remind me why this thread is in the Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology section of ISF?

 

[jonesdave116]

As far as I know they are using the DENSE PLASMA FOCUS as the model for “black holes” and AGN.

Same as the sun being modeled of a transistor effect, vacuum gas discharge tube.

Not an electrostatic pith ball.

And as far as I know, he has no mechanism whatsoever, and has never revealed it if he has. It is pure woo. Why not email him? Get some support for his nonsense that actually involves some science? Start with the observed orbits of the stars around SMBHs, and the observed gravitational redshift of S0-2 around Sgr A*, for instance. Start explaining that with impossible plasmoid woo. Has never been done. Maybe we could see where it has been done? Otherwise, it is pure pseudoscientific nonsense.

 

[Sol88]

Yeah great.

But we still have ...

Studying astrophysical plasmas is part of mainstream academic astrophysics. Though plasma processes are part of the standard cosmological model, current theories indicate that they might have only a minor role to play in forming the very largest structures, such as voids, galaxy clusters and superclusters.[citation needed]

Oooooooohhhhh dark stuff...whoooooo

No standard plasma physics scaled of quite a few OOM.

Simple.

Mainstream has never answer why it’s considered woo? It all there and nothing needs to be invented unlike accepted cosmology.

For instance

no mechanism whatsoever

. Flat out lie, as usual from a plasma numpty like jonesy.

Do you even understand what being discussed? Jean tate?

Apply plasma physics to a plasma universe.

 

[Sol88]

no mechanism whatsoever

Jonesdave116, please elaborate.

 

[Ziggurat]

Mainstream has never answer why it’s considered woo?

I've explained it countless times. Every single time anyone backing EU or plasma cosmology stuff actually puts forward a testable claim, it fails spectacularly. Electric sun? It would explode instantly. Magnetic fields affecting galactic rotation? The actual fields are 20 orders of magnitude (not a factor of 20) too small. Something other than expansion causes cosmological red shifts? It would also cause blurring, which isn't observed. The universe is infinitely old? Heat death.

And on, and on, and on.

And in the end, all of it always traces back to Velikovsky anyways. And if you don't know why Velikovsky is woo, well, I really can't help you anymore.

Do you even understand what being discussed? Jean tate?

Apply plasma physics to a plasma universe.

You've never applied actual physics to anything.

 

[Steve001]

Jonesdave116, please elaborate.

Still awaiting a reply to post 2077. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12873705&postcount=2077

 

[jonesdave116]

Jonesdave116, please elaborate.

Zero mechanisms to explain stellar orbits. Zero mechanisms to explain gravitational redshift. Zero mechanisms to explain how an impossibly big plasmoid would form in the first plasce. And how it would remain stable on cosmological timescales. Et cetera. It is pure woo. As bad as Velikovsky's junk.

 

[JeanTate]

Yeah great.

But we still have ...


Oooooooohhhhh dark stuff...whoooooo

No standard plasma physics scaled of quite a few OOM.

Simple.

Mainstream has never answer why it’s considered woo? It all there and nothing needs to be invented unlike accepted cosmology.

You've lost me Sol88; what - exactly - is "considered woo"?

And by exactly, I mean something quantitative, beyond handwaving and invalid images.

For instance . Flat out lie, as usual from a plasma numpty like jonesy.

Do you even understand what being discussed? Jean tate?

No, Sol88, I do not know. Beyond apparently endless repitition of essentially meaningless phrases and long-debunked Velikovsky nonsense.

How about you spell it out for me, in quantitative detail?

Apply plasma physics to a plasma universe.

You mean, like what plasma astrophysicists do, pretty much their entire working lives? Or what space physicist tusenfem does, and has been doing for decades?

 

[Reality Check]

Yet more insanity from Sol88 -insane lies about the EU, physics, posts and posters

...

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - insane lies about the EU, physics, posts and posters!
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma continued in the electric universe theories thread.

Sol88's demented EU cult tells deluded lies about plasma. Donald Scott's delusions are from the most sane of the demented cult prophets!
A summary of Donald Scott's EU delusions supplied from Sol88's posts.

Sol88's insanity of non sourced quotes about the mainstream physics his cult lie about. Astrophysical plasma

An insane "No standard plasma physics scaled of quite a few OOM" EU delusion. Plasma behavior is well known to scale up subject to known limitations. The scaling is many OOM from millimeters to maybe kilometers. Cosmology has scales of billions of light-years. For example, look at Sol88's and his cult's insane obsession with double layers. A double layer has scales of a few 10's of Debye lengths. The Debye length of the intergalactic medium is 10,000 meters. Charitably that gives a maximum DL scale of 1000 kilometers. A single light year is 9,461,000,000,000 kilometers !

Sol88's usual insane lies about mainstream physics. The explanation of why plasma is irrelevant to cosmology is because it is quasi-neutral partially ionized gas !

Sol88's usual insane lies about posts and posters.
jonesdave116 wrote about Sol88 and Sol88's demented cult prophets.

And as far as I know, he has no mechanism whatsoever, and has never revealed it if he has. It is pure woo. Why not email him? Get some support for his nonsense that actually involves some science? Start with the observed orbits of the stars around SMBHs, and the observed gravitational redshift of S0-2 around Sgr A*, for instance. Start explaining that with impossible plasmoid woo. Has never been done. Maybe we could see where it has been done? Otherwise, it is pure pseudoscientific nonsense.

That is Sol88 and Sol88's demented cult insanity that light emitting plasmoids are black holes. Sol88 and Sol88's demented cult have no mechanism.

 

[Reality Check]

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - insanely stupid questions

Jonesdave116, please elaborate.

Yet more insanity from Sol88 - insanely stupid questions
The thousands of insane lies, delusions, insults, etc. since 6 July 2009 from Sol88 about his cult's electric comet and electric Sun dogma continued in the electric universe theories thread.

Sol88 and Sol88's demented cult have the obvious insanity that light emitting plasmoids that have only been seem at millimeter scales in labs are black holes including supermassive black holes! I have highlighted the fundamental insanity.

1. Black holes exist outside of labs!
2. Black holes do no emit anything so are not made of light emitting plasma !
3. Supermassive black holes are as large as stars such as the Sun with millions or billions of solar masses packed in.
   That gives mean densities (~10% the density of water) that are not plasma densities !
   What is the density of a black hole? (Advanced)
4. Black holes form in many different conditions.
   Plasmoids need specific conditions to form.
5. We have many observations of the predicted gravitational waves from merging black holes.
   Sol88 and his demented EU cult have no idea what their "plasmoids" will do when they merge.
   Sol88 and his demented EU cult deny that these gravitational waves from merging black holes were detected.
   Sol88 and his demented EU cult deny that light and gravitational waves from merging neutron stars have been detected. But Sol88 and his demented EU cult also deny that neutron stars exist - Scott made an deluded video about this !

 

[Sol88]

Zero mechanisms to explain stellar orbits. Zero mechanisms to explain gravitational redshift. Zero mechanisms to explain how an impossibly big plasmoid would form in the first plasce. And how it would remain stable on cosmological timescales. Et cetera. It is pure woo. As bad as Velikovsky's junk.

Have a mechanism to explain this Astronomers catch wind rushing out of galaxy

"Makani is not a typical galaxy," noted Coil, a physics professor at UC San Diego. "It's what's known as a late-stage major merger—two recently combined similarly massive galaxies, which came together because of the gravitational pull each felt from the other as they drew nearer. Galaxy mergers often lead to starburst events, when a substantial amount of gas present in the merging galaxies is compressed, resulting in a burst of new star births. Those new stars, in the case of Makani, likely caused the huge outflows—either in stellar winds or at the end of their lives when they exploded as supernovae."

Gravity the ONLY mainstream toolbox.

They are talking about plasma and use gravity????

Case closed!