Electric Car - Tesla Type S

[paximperium]

ICE not Fuel Cell.

Que?

 

[technoextreme]

Que?

That car you linked to is an internal combustion engine not a fuel cell which can't be run at low temperatures.

 

[Delvo]

What I'd really like to see is a car with four in-wheel electric motors, getting rid of all the driveline weight. ETA - Also means you get full traction control for nothing, and you have motor redundancy.

It's been invented, but it's still one of those "Look what we can do" prototypes. Part of what the inventors had in mind was parking in tight spaces. You could stop the car next to the parallel parking space you want to get into, turn all four wheels 90°, and slide into the spot straight sideways. Also, the one they invented has some strange tilting up and folding down trick to decrease its length after the people are out of it, so a bunch of them could be packed even tighter.

How about a good station wagon?

Very few are still being made. The minivan killed them in the late 1980s.

Que?

"ICE" does not mean "ice". It means "Internal Combustion Engine".

 

[Zeuzzz]

http://www.teslamotors.com/models/index.php

Further to the Tesla Roadster, Tesla have unveiled their new model S-Type.

Specs seem very promising: 300 mile range , 0-60 in 6 seconds

Very nice looking motor, would buy one if I had a bit of spare cash ($57,000)

I want one! Though why stop at 440 volts? Why not just go up to ~1000 Volts like Tesla himself suggested would be more efficient for general power hundreds of years ago? Maybe Eddisons public electricuting of Elephants with Teslas "dangerous" AC electricity is still being taken literally by some.*

Though I'm sure that the petrol/energy industries are gonna make mass production of this type of technology difficult and more expensive in some way.

Seems just as good (if not better) as Hondas hydrogen based car I saw recently on Top gear, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AUurBnLbJw

* Please dont take this seriously

 

[steve s]

Over the weekend I was at a friend's house and we were watching that episode of Top Gear where they drove the Tesla. They also went to Jay Leno's garage where Jay was touting the Honda Clarity as the next great thing. The problem with the Clarity is that outside of Los Angeles, there isn't any place to get hydrogen. I've never seen a gas station around here selling hydrogen. The only place that I'm aware of that does sell it is a Honda dealership. It's going to be at least a decade before there are enough refueling stations to make the Clarity practical to own. In 20 years the Clarity will be a great car. Until then it's just a ton of scrap metal.

I've got high hopes for the Chevy Volt. It's main advantage is that it won't require any change in our infrastructure. It will make start making a difference immediately.

And when people drive their Volts to work, they'll park them in the sun for 8-9 hours a day. Those cars can be recharging during that time. Companies could build carports with solar panels on top. They could recoup the construction cost over time by charging employees a monthly fee to rent a parking spot under the carport. The employee benefits because he won't be spending nearly as much on gas, and he won't have to drive up his electric bill at home by recharging the car there.

Steve S.

 

[LTC8K6]

Unless there's a heck of a subsidy, a $40K Volt won't make much of a difference at all, imo.

Also, it's really just a gasoline powered car unless you limit it to short trips which can be done on the battery alone.

 

[LTC8K6]

A solar panel will be an extra cost option, so I wouldn't count on that.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10206089-54.html?tag=mncol;posts

 

[Davo]

Future of electric cars

In the long term I see electric cars becoming cheaper than conventional motor vehicles.

Once batteries become mass produced, costs will plummet.

An electric car drivetrain is far simpler, basically an electric motor coupled to batteries.As opposed to a complicated combustion engine, gearbox, radiator,exhaust, oil pump, water pump etc. Simpler, less parts, therefore cheaper.

From a maintenance perspective electric vehicle would also be cheaper.

My glimpse to the future would be that you could choose motor size and battery capacity when purchasing vehicle.

 

[Davo]

What I'd really like to see is a car with four in-wheel electric motors, getting rid of all the driveline weight. ETA - Also means you get full traction control for nothing, and you have motor redundancy.

The Mitsubishi IMIEV will be on sale this year for about $30,000. This utilises 3 motors, One powering rear axle the other 2 powering each front wheel. Not a bad car, although hasn`t got the cool factor that the Tesla has.

 

[technoextreme]

In the long term I see electric cars becoming cheaper than conventional motor vehicles.

Once batteries become mass produced, costs will plummet.

An electric car drivetrain is far simpler, basically an electric motor coupled to batteries.As opposed to a complicated combustion engine, gearbox, radiator,exhaust, oil pump, water pump etc. Simpler, less parts, therefore cheaper.

From a maintenance perspective electric vehicle would also be cheaper.

My glimpse to the future would be that you could choose motor size and battery capacity when purchasing vehicle.

That is probably wrong. The materials used in motors are more exotic than the materials used in your average engine. I remember reading that neodyinum magnets were actually developed by the automobile industry because of the problem sourcing the materials needed for sarium cobalt magnets.

 

[paximperium]

That car you linked to is an internal combustion engine not a fuel cell which can't be run at low temperatures.

Do you see any future for Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engines?

No issue with icing since the hot gasses should keep the H20 liquid/gas even at freezing temperatures.

 

[Disbelief]

The problem is that many of them had virtualy no hybrids made for them. There were what a 100 Yukon Hybrids made?

They build the Yukon hybrid today, and are coming with an Escalade hybrid.

That car you linked to is an internal combustion engine not a fuel cell which can't be run at low temperatures.

Not true. All the major manufacturers have been able to run fuel cells at low temperatures. The biggest problem was the seals would be damaged by the water freezing, but they have overcome this issue. However, there are still limits, and extreme temperatures (-15 F) still make it impossible to use.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

That is probably wrong. The materials used in motors are more exotic than the materials used in your average engine. I remember reading that neodyinum magnets were actually developed by the automobile industry because of the problem sourcing the materials needed for sarium cobalt magnets.

Variable reluctance motors only require iron and copper/aluminium.

 

[politas]

How about double or nothing?

Strangely enough, I don't actually have any use for a car that can do 0-100 km/h in 4 seconds. I currently drive a Suzuki Jimny, which has a seriously underpowered 1.3 litre engine. It doesn't use huge amounts of petrol, can carry all my camping gear, utilising the roofracks, and I never have to worry about getting bogged.

All the electric cars seem to be a choice of either a tiny little bubble car that doesn't have room for all my stuff, or an attempt to be the latest supercar. What I want is a compact all-wheel drive/4WD vehicle. And they all seem to petrol, at least in Australia.

 

[technoextreme]

Variable reluctance motors only require iron and copper/aluminium.

I am trying to remember the reason why you don't see them in cars. Though thanks for rebooting that memory because I have seen reluctance motors before.

Not true. All the major manufacturers have been able to run fuel cells at low temperatures. The biggest problem was the seals would be damaged by the water freezing, but they have overcome this issue. However, there are still limits, and extreme temperatures (-15 F) still make it impossible to use.

Wrong. First of all saying you can run a fuel cell at low temperatures is a bit on the dumb side because it doesn't mean you want to do that. Second of all I would like some sources because the biggest problem is carbon monoxide poisoning.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

I am trying to remember the reason why you don't see them in cars. Though thanks for rebooting that memory because I have seen reluctance motors before.

<snip>

The biggest problem to overcome is torque ripple. The most straightforward approach is to use a sensor to provide feedback on the rotor position and modulate the drive accordingly, but the sensor raises reliability and cost issues, so more advanced methods are being developed which can deduce the rotor position without a discrete sensor by using the currents / voltages in the phases of the motor windings.

 

[technoextreme]

The biggest problem to overcome is torque ripple. The most straightforward approach is to use a sensor to provide feedback on the rotor position and modulate the drive accordingly, but the sensor raises reliability and cost issues, so more advanced methods are being developed which can deduce the rotor position without a discrete sensor by using the currents / voltages in the phases of the motor windings.

Thanks.

 

[politas]

It holds plenty of cargo - certainly enough for my camping gear. I think the real drawback is that its just a two-seater. The Tesla easily has it beat in terms of people carrying.

My camping gear is a lot more than fifteen grocery bags' worth. Large tent, big tarp for shade with attendant poles, ropes, pegs, etc, queen size self-inflating mattress, esky, second tent for #girlfriend's son, drums, guitar, tables, chairs, assorted food & drink paraphenalia, etc.

I go camping several times a year, at festivals, and a large portion of the gear goes on a roof-rack. The aptera doesn't look like it has any way to attach a roof-rack, and it would cripple its aerodynamics entirely. Can it tow a trailer or small caravan? Anyway, it's not for sale in Australia, and neither are most of the vehicles being discussed here (with the Prius as a notable exception).

I don't think the electric/hybrid/fuel-cell options are there for me, yet. I'm actually thinking about upgrading from my 1.3 litre Jimny to a 2.0 litre Suzuki SX4, which has much roomier back seats, and fairly comparable fuel economy. Maybe when the time comes to replace that car...

 

[madurobob]

My camping gear is a lot more than fifteen grocery bags' worth. Large tent, big tarp for shade with attendant poles, ropes, pegs, etc, queen size self-inflating mattress, esky, second tent for #girlfriend's son, drums, guitar, tables, chairs, assorted food & drink paraphenalia, etc.

lol.. not what I'd call "camping", but we each have our own definition. For Ms Madurobob its "anything less than a four-star hotel".