Elections in Spain

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by Fendetestas
Podríamos means "we could", it's the first person of the plural of the simple conditional. (Spanish conjugation is quite complicated)

Recoger means "collect"

Could someone who speaks spanish understand judeao-spanish and translate to English?

Then I've got this all wrong. I was thinking dichos is speaks, but is it words instead? We could collect words of Spanish...?

What's ma non and mas al?

We could collect words of Spanish that are Judeao-Spanish but not English?

 

[demon]

In the UK the blatant misconstruction and misrepresentation of the Spanish election result has been sickening to witness. Especially coming from journalists who practically never mention the extremely dubious claim to power of George W Bush. Pathetic. Moreover none has made the analogy with the UK and registered that...hey!...we don't even have a party for people who don't want the Iraq war. What does that say about our democracy? Pretty damn f****ed if you ask me. When bombs go off in London or elsewhere in the UK how shall our protest votes be registered. What kind of democracy are we?

You just think: how can they all be such blind, dishonest ◊◊◊◊◊? Practically without exception. Did anyone read Peter Preston after the bombings? Such presenile slobber! Don't these guys ever try and see the world through any other lenses than those prescribed by the prevailing ideology? They are such a bad advertisement for the human faculties of reason and impartial inquiry (let alone self-examination). Self-awareness zero. These are "writers" and they haven't understood anything about the world. Anything. Moreover they're privileged and have every opportunity to inform themselves and follow up dissident perspectives and lines of enquiry. Too bone lazy to ever try. Worthless scum.

To be effective and worthwhile people we all have a hard row to hoe...identitfying and expelling the poisons that our culture inculcates in us. All the more reason to strike hard (if only verbally), at journalists who betray their professional and public duty by peddling contempt and encouraging intellectual corruption among the "educated" classes. Although in their defence they could say that the problem doesn't start with them, as they are not responsible for the whole (or even much) of the cultural capital and its parlous state.
Yet, that they are uniformly privileged, largely from an Oxbridge background, is a description of the problem, not of the opportunity for enlightenment.

 

[richardm]

In the UK the blatant misconstruction and misrepresentation of the Spanish election result has been sickening to witness.

Anything specific in mind?

Moreover none has made the analogy with the UK and registered that...hey!...we don't even have a party for people who don't want the Iraq war.

Lib Dems? Greens?

Although in their defence they could say that the problem doesn't start with them, as they are not responsible for the whole (or even much) of the cultural capital and its parlous state.

Maybe not, but they're not averse to pandering to it in order to sell newspapers. And that doesn't have much to do with which university you went to.

 

[rikzilla]

What a load of tripe! And the Spanish people didn't get rid of Franco by themselves. France never had a revolution that spread through half of Europe?


Zee

Hardly any of your post was worth my time to reply to. You are a German pacifist...the neutered "ubermenschen" personified. I did a research paper in university on the fall of the Berlin wall as a current event. I remember all the concerns voiced by many Europeans that Germany would be dangerous as a reunited state. Thankfully they need not have worried...the allies did a great 50 year long pacification project...maybe too good of a job actually!

During my research I dug up this quote:

"I love Germany so much I'm glad there are two of them", scoffed the French novelist Francois Mauriac, articulating the unspoken gut reactions of the powers on both sides of the Iron Curtain. German division may have been cruel, but at least it had provided a lasting solution to the German "problem".

...a solution so perfectly effective that a German can in 2004 look at the natural death of Generalissimo Francisco Franco and see it as the action of the brave Spanish people "ridding themselves" of a tyrant!

Wake up Zee....the guy died of old age. Your powers of perception are highly suspect.

-z

 

[rikzilla]

In the UK the blatant misconstruction and misrepresentation of the Spanish election result has been sickening to witness.

How so? Please offer an example.

Especially coming from journalists who practically never mention the extremely dubious claim to power of George W Bush.

Ancient history...you obviously know nothing about American election law. GWB clearly won the Electoral vote...the only stat that counts. GWB's opponents mention popular vote, but that is like saying that your team has more cheerleaders therefore it should win, no matter the final score or the rules of the game.

Pathetic. Moreover none has made the analogy with the UK and registered that...hey!...we don't even have a party for people who don't want the Iraq war. What does that say about our democracy? Pretty damn f****ed if you ask me.

Aren't you a Palestinian? Why not go back and enjoy the Democracy of Yasser Arafat?

When bombs go off in London or elsewhere in the UK how shall our protest votes be registered. What kind of democracy are we?

When?? So you have information that bombs will go off? Perhaps you'd like to share? Besides, who shall you protest? The government of the people bombed, or the people doing the bombing? Oh,...sorry....I suppose the people doing the bombing aren't on the ballot? Shame isn't it?

You just think: how can they all be such blind, dishonest ◊◊◊◊◊? Practically without exception. Did anyone read Peter Preston after the bombings? Such presenile slobber! Don't these guys ever try and see the world through any other lenses than those prescribed by the prevailing ideology? They are such a bad advertisement for the human faculties of reason and impartial inquiry (let alone self-examination). Self-awareness zero. These are "writers" and they haven't understood anything about the world. Anything. Moreover they're privileged and have every opportunity to inform themselves and follow up dissident perspectives and lines of enquiry. Too bone lazy to ever try. Worthless scum.

So I guess this means you disagree with them? Hey guess what demon? Freedom of speech means that even people who don't have a myopic penchant for support of murdering terrorists get to publish their opinions. You'd be much happier living in Gaza. I hear they don't allow such awful opinions there!

To be effective and worthwhile people we all have a hard row to hoe...identitfying and expelling the poisons that our culture inculcates in us. All the more reason to strike hard (if only verbally), at journalists who betray their professional and public duty by peddling contempt and encouraging intellectual corruption among the "educated" classes.

Like your brother Islamists did to This guy?

Oh, wait...you did post a disclaimer; "if only verbally" so we just can't possibly attack your post eh? You are a hateful human being.

Although in their defence they could say that the problem doesn't start with them, as they are not responsible for the whole (or even much) of the cultural capital and its parlous state.
Yet, that they are uniformly privileged, largely from an Oxbridge background, is a description of the problem, not of the opportunity for enlightenment.

"Enlightenment"?? From whom? You? The bombers whom you lauded for the successful murder of 200 Spaniards?

Spare us your enlightenment. We like our society as it is now...free.

-z

 

[Morwen]

Could someone who speaks spanish understand judeao-spanish and translate to English?

Then I've got this all wrong. I was thinking dichos is speaks, but is it words instead? We could collect words of Spanish...?

Well, the better translation would be "sayings", as in "expressions", I think.

What's ma non and mas al?

I think (let those who know better correct me) they can be translated as "but not" and "instead", very loosely. The way of building the sentence is different. The sentence "Podriamos arekoger dichos por Espanya ma non al djudeo-espanyol mas al Ingleses." is a bit confusing to me. I know nothing of Ladino, I simply extrapolate from Spanish. It looks like it would mean "We could collect some Spanish sayings that have an equivalent to English but not to djudeo-espanyol", but I admit it sounds very weird. Cleopatra, help!

 

[Mr Manifesto]

Letter From Spain?

Rather than start another thread, I thought I'd use this one to include a letter possibly from someone from Spain. Perhaps anyone who is more familiar with the Spanish language than me could give their opinion on whether it's genuine or not. It details what happened shortly after the bombing, and some insight as to why Spain voted the way they did.

Spain in Perspective

You'll find it in the 16 March entry of the blog.

Of interest:

After more than 30 years of ETA terrorism, many people thought at once that this murderers well known to the Spanish people had caused the massacre. But well-informed people immediately noticed it was a classical "Chechen attack", completely different of what ETA has done up to today and essentially identical to the Moscow subway attack several weeks ago. This caused some turmoil, specially when a pro-ETA spokesman made the point. Some minutes later, Interior (Security) Minister Angel Acebes declared openly that the authors were ETA and anyone denying it was a "miserable".

Maybe part of the problem is that the Spaniards didn't like being told how to think?

 

[Mr Manifesto]

[B

...and some of your best friends are black, I'll bet. [/B]

Maybe not, but you are definitely a lying c*cksucker.

 

[Fendetestas]

Re: Letter From Spain?

Rather than start another thread, I thought I'd use this one to include a letter possibly from someone from Spain. Perhaps anyone who is more familiar with the Spanish language than me could give their opinion on whether it's genuine or not

I don't have much time right know, so I could only skim through the text, but in my opinion is authentic, meaning it was written by a Spaniard. Some simple (and quick) reasons are the use of the word "miserable", which in this context in Spanish would mean something like "swine", thinking it has the same meaning in English. Another is the use of 11S to refer to the 9/11 attacks. In Spain we put the day before the month (today would be 17-III-2004) and we use this construction to talk about significant dates, for example the coup d'êtat of 23F.

 

[Morwen]

I agree. The letter seems absolutely genuine and makes a quite fair and balanced assesment of the process which led to the PP's defeat. The people in Spain can be many things -I know, I'm one of them-. But regarding March 11 and its consequences, one thing we haven't been is cowards.

 

[DanishDynamite]

rikzilla:

Hardly any of your post was worth my time to reply to.

...said the kettle to the pot.

You are a German pacifist...the neutered "ubermenschen" personified.

And you are the mindless tricker-happy hillbilly personified. Gosh, it's so easy to make personal attacks. No wonder you do it a lot, Rick.

I did a research paper in university on the fall of the Berlin wall as a current event. I remember all the concerns voiced by many Europeans that Germany would be dangerous as a reunited state. Thankfully they need not have worried...the allies did a great 50 year long pacification project...maybe too good of a job actually!

There was a 50-year long pacification project? What was its name? Was there a conspiracy to cover it up, Rick?

Anyway, as I'm sure someone with a Univerity degree would know, every European country managed to divest itself of autocratic rulers and establish democracies. And before you start raving about Hitler, for most countries this happened long before his time.

 

[rikzilla]

rikzilla:...said the kettle to the pot.

"whatever"

And you are the mindless tricker-happy hillbilly personified. Gosh, it's so easy to make personal attacks. No wonder you do it a lot, Rick.

That's "trigger-happy" Mr. Euro-trash. If you are going to make pissy remarks, you might as well at least try and get the terminology correct.

There was a 50-year long pacification project? What was its name?

In the beginning it was called the post war occupation of Germany, later it was referred to as "The Cold War". Every German who grew up during that period was taught to feel national shame for their acceptance of Hitler. I've known many German civilians and soldiers....most were pacifists...even the soldiers. (not that that's a bad thing, given their history)

Was there a conspiracy to cover it up, Rick?

No. Most educated humans have heard of the Cold War. Why I myself have first hand knowlege of it! I was stationed in Frankfurt-Hoechst from 1978 to 81. No one told me it was a secret.

Anyway, as I'm sure someone with a Univerity degree would know, every European country managed to divest itself of autocratic rulers and establish democracies. And before you start raving about Hitler, for most countries this happened long before his time.

Oh? So I guess you agree with ZG that the Spanish "ridded themselves" of Franco?? That they merely used the effective weapon of "old age" against him? What a laugh! And why would I rave about Hitler? The allies took out Hitler, not the German people!

The last time a European country actually did rid itself of an "autocratic ruler" was the French revolution. And the cure (the terror) was as bad as the disease (the monarchy).

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...do list the many accomplishments of the Danes in throwing off tyranny at home and worldwide. we're ready to believe you.

-z

 

[Fendetestas]

The last time a European country actually did rid itself of an "autocratic ruler" was the French revolution. And the cure (the terror) was as bad as the disease (the monarchy).

Yeah, because there has never been such a thing as an Independence War in Europe, and of course the French Revolution is the last and only time a European country got rid of its King/Queen.

 

[epepke]

Hardly any of your post was worth my time to reply to. You are a German pacifist...the neutered "ubermenschen" personified.

Not really. In the Nietzschean sense, he's more of a "letzte Mensch."

 

[epepke]

Yeah, because there has never been such a thing as an Independence War in Europe, and of course the French Revolution is the last and only time a European country got rid of its King/Queen.

Switzerland comes pretty close, although of course that was a long time ago.

 

[Fendetestas]

Switzerland comes pretty close, although of course that was a long time ago.

Eh... I was trying to be sarcastic. Just in the XIX century in Spain you have quite a lot of revolutions and coups d'êtat, an Independence War against France...

 

[Fendetestas]

accidental post

 

[epepke]

I think (let those who know better correct me) they can be translated as "but not" and "instead", very loosely. The way of building the sentence is different. The sentence "Podriamos arekoger dichos por Espanya ma non al djudeo-espanyol mas al Ingleses." is a bit confusing to me. I know nothing of Ladino, I simply extrapolate from Spanish. It looks like it would mean "We could collect some Spanish sayings that have an equivalent to English but not to djudeo-espanyol", but I admit it sounds very weird. Cleopatra, help!

I don't know if I know better. But it's that 15th century thing. I'd translate it as "Perhaps we could exchange letters/postings about Spain in Sephardic rather than in English."

Of course, I suck at translation. It takes me about 15 minutes to shift my brain into Spanish or German, and once I've done that, it's really hard to think in English any more. German is harder for me to make the switch than Spanish, but Spanish is still hard.

 

[epepke]

Eh... I was trying to be sarcastic. Just in the XIX century in Spain you have quite a lot of revolutions, and Independence War against France...

OK. Yes, there have been plenty of revolutions, but none of them lasted too long. But the Swiss got things amazingly right at an amazingly early time. Being from the US, I have a different idea about revolutions: to me, it counts more if you can stick to it.

 

[Fendetestas]

OK. Yes, there have been plenty of revolutions, but none of them lasted too long. But the Swiss got things amazingly right at an amazingly early time. Being from the US, I have a different idea about revolutions: to me, it counts more if you can stick to it.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean we can't get rid of tyrants or that we are conformists. I was just trying to say that in Europe we can also fight for our freedom and we have done so in several occasions.

By the way, I agree with your translation of Cleopatra's post.