Elections are not won by despising voters

[Darat]

In terms of despising voters, I’d like to use this an example of a politician publicly despising voters and present it as evidence that unlike the premise in the opening post one can despise voters yet still be elected.

“ …snip…

Liverpool is a handsome city with a tribal sense of community. A combination of economic misfortune — its docks were, fundamentally, on the wrong side of England when Britain entered what is now the European Union — and an excessive predilection for welfarism have created a peculiar, and deeply unattractive, psyche among many Liverpudlians. They see themselves whenever possible as victims, and resent their victim status; yet at the same time they wallow in it. Part of this flawed psychological state is that they cannot accept that they might have made any contribution to their misfortunes, but seek rather to blame someone else for it, thereby deepening their sense of shared tribal grievance against the rest of society.
​

…snip…”

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

In terms of despising voters, I’d like to use this an example of a politician publicly despising voters and present it as evidence that unlike the premise in the opening post one can despise voters yet still be elected.

“ …snip…

Liverpool is a handsome city with a tribal sense of community. A combination of economic misfortune — its docks were, fundamentally, on the wrong side of England when Britain entered what is now the European Union — and an excessive predilection for welfarism have created a peculiar, and deeply unattractive, psyche among many Liverpudlians. They see themselves whenever possible as victims, and resent their victim status; yet at the same time they wallow in it. Part of this flawed psychological state is that they cannot accept that they might have made any contribution to their misfortunes, but seek rather to blame someone else for it, thereby deepening their sense of shared tribal grievance against the rest of society.
​

…snip…”

I'm not sure that makes your point. Liverpool has 5 Labour MPs, so despising them didn't get them to vote Tory.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Labour is standing for something; painful reality.
Labour was, and is, pushing the truths that Britain is not special, that blaming your troubles on brown people/foreigners/immigrants/Brussels/the EU/gays/others is stupid and factually wrong, and that Brexit was disastrously stupid.

However people don't like to have their comfortable bubble of lies disrupted by unpleasant truths.

Until the sky actually does fall in as Labour says it would, and the bubble collapses like the fragile film it actually is. Then the good sirs of Hartlepool will run around shouting "Labour never told us it was going to be like this!" And they will still blame the brown people/foreigners/immigrants/Brussels/the EU/gays/others for their own self-inflicted woes.

My experience as a contractor has taught me that some people simply won't listen to any modicum of common sense. They more you try to show them, the more impervious they become. Like T**** and his insistence he won and is still the legitimate US president, reality fades further and further from them every day and pointing that out accelerates the process. There is nothing to do then but to step back, abandon them to their fantasies, and let them get on with ruining their lives without help. Or, in my case, their IT operations.

 

[Darat]

I'm not sure that makes your point. Liverpool has 5 Labour MPs, so despising them didn't get them to vote Tory.

Didn’t stop Johnson becoming PM.

 

[The Don]

Until the sky actually does fall in as Labour says it would, and the bubble collapses like the fragile film it actually is. Then the good sirs of Hartlepool will run around shouting "Labour never told us it was going to be like this!" And they will still blame the brown people/foreigners/immigrants/Brussels/the EU/gays/others for their own self-inflicted woes.

I'm not so sure that the moment of realisation will ever come.

People will always find someone else to blame.

Any repercussions of Brexit will be the fault of the horrible EU who have been mean to us. A lack of growth in non-EU markets will be blamed on horrid foreigners (or being hamstrung by the EU). Other scapegoats will be found for local issues.

Even if they finally come to the conclusion that Brexit has been a fiasco, that it would always have been bad but that this government's hubris and bungling has made it much, much worse and that the UK's woes could largely have been avoided had Brexit not happened, they will still believe that if Brexit had only been done "properly" then with would have been a rip-roaring success.

Their ire will not be with the Brexiteers who screwed them over but the Remoaners who somehow had their hand firmly on the Brexit tiller despite not having any significant influence.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Labour is standing for something; painful reality.
Labour was, and is, pushing the truths that Britain is not special, that blaming your troubles on brown people/foreigners/immigrants/Brussels/the EU/gays/others is stupid and factually wrong, and that Brexit was disastrously stupid.

However people don't like to have their comfortable bubble of lies disrupted by unpleasant truths.

I've definitely missed something! Where did Labour say this?

 

[Garrison]

The notion that Labour lost Hartlepool to Boris Johnson's Tories because their leadership wasn't working class enough is beyond ludicrous. The Tories won because the vaccine is rolling out and the pubs are opening(never mind their reckless policies created the conditions that caused the last lockdown). They won by playing to the xenophobes and racists who are still lurking out there waiting for someone to tell them their right. And they won because Boris has spun his way out of revelations that would have killed the career of another politician(sound familiar?).

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Given the amount of damage he did, many years.

Sure. It's a sweet theory they have. The more Labour fails at the polls, the more blame they can heap on the Corbynites.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

The notion that Labour lost Hartlepool to Boris Johnson's Tories because their leadership wasn't working class enough is beyond ludicrous. The Tories won because the vaccine is rolling out and the pubs are opening(never mind their reckless policies created the conditions that caused the last lockdown). They won by playing to the xenophobes and racists who are still lurking out there waiting for someone to tell them their right. And they won because Boris has spun his way out of revelations that would have killed the career of another politician(sound familiar?).

It can't have helped Labour to pick a candidate who is/was strongly pro-EU/Remain in a seat which voted for Leave - at best that was tone deaf by the selection committee (assuming they weren't leaned on by the party central HQ).

 

[Lothian]

In respect of he thread title. Dominic Cummings hates everyone, even or perhaps especially those he works for. He managed to win a referendum and an election.

The secret is not to tell people you hate them rather give them somebody else to hate and make a vote for you the only way to save them from the foreigners, Ethnic minorities, lefties and other assorted boggymen who are destroying everything they care for.

 

[Garrison]

It can't have helped Labour to pick a candidate who is/was strongly pro-EU/Remain in a seat which voted for Leave - at best that was tone deaf by the selection committee (assuming they weren't leaned on by the party central HQ).

I doubt it made a difference, the voters were oblivious to matters of policy.

 

[catsmate]

Until the sky actually does fall in as Labour says it would, and the bubble collapses like the fragile film it actually is. Then the good sirs of Hartlepool will run around shouting "Labour never told us it was going to be like this!" And they will still blame the brown people/foreigners/immigrants/Brussels/the EU/gays/others for their own self-inflicted woes.

Very true.

My experience as a contractor has taught me that some people simply won't listen to any modicum of common sense.

Been there, done that, documented the probable consequences.

They more you try to show them, the more impervious they become. Like T**** and his insistence he won and is still the legitimate US president, reality fades further and further from them every day and pointing that out accelerates the process. There is nothing to do then but to step back, abandon them to their fantasies, and let them get on with ruining their lives without help. Or, in my case, their IT operations.

Indeed.
"We don't need to install service packs, we have anti-virus software".

 

[catsmate]

I'm not so sure that the moment of realisation will ever come.

People will always find someone else to blame.

Any repercussions of Brexit will be the fault of the horrible EU who have been mean to us. A lack of growth in non-EU markets will be blamed on horrid foreigners (or being hamstrung by the EU). Other scapegoats will be found for local issues.

Even if they finally come to the conclusion that Brexit has been a fiasco, that it would always have been bad but that this government's hubris and bungling has made it much, much worse and that the UK's woes could largely have been avoided had Brexit not happened, they will still believe that if Brexit had only been done "properly" then with would have been a rip-roaring success.

Their ire will not be with the Brexiteers who screwed them over but the Remoaners who somehow had their hand firmly on the Brexit tiller despite not having any significant influence.

Very true.

Sure. It's a sweet theory they have. The more Labour fails at the polls, the more blame they can heap on the Corbynites.

I'm not so sure that the moment of realisation will ever come.

People will always find someone else to blame.

Hmmm.
Perhaps eventually the Corbynistas will cop-on and realise they are (to coin a phrase) part of the problem, not the solution.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

How expensive is the cost of living in Scotland? Because if I moved there I would absolutely vote yes in the next indyref. I'd probably switch to SNP altogether actually.

I despise England.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Didn't Trump win by despising voters?

Yeah. And if anyone thinks that a populist huckster riding a wave of spite to high office is something that can only happen in America...

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Perhaps eventually the Corbynistas will cop-on and realise they are (to coin a phrase) part of the problem, not the solution.

I wonder when the people who blamed Corbyn for all Labour's failures will even realise what the problem is or rather problems are?

'Not getting elected' is a symptom not the problem.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

How expensive is the cost of living in Scotland? Because if I moved there I would absolutely vote yes in the next indyref. I'd probably switch to SNP altogether actually.

I despise England.

Depends where you are now but when I moved from Scotland to England housing costs roughly trebled. Maybe 2.5x

 

[The Don]

I wonder when the people who blamed Corbyn for all Labour's failures will even realise what the problem is or rather problems are?

'Not getting elected' is a symptom not the problem.

When the English electorate is clamouring for right wing demagogues, and are impervious to "education" thanks to a right wing press determined to support those demagogues, I'm not sure what a left wing party has to offer.

 

[The Don]

How expensive is the cost of living in Scotland? Because if I moved there I would absolutely vote yes in the next indyref. I'd probably switch to SNP altogether actually.

I despise England.

Cheap booze is marginally more expensive thanks to minimum alcohol pricing. Unless you drink an extraordinary amount of Diamond White, the lower cost of housing would more than offset that.

It's not the cost of living you have to worry about, it's the midgies.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I haven't drunk white cider since uni. I only did so once.