Elbe Trackway

[Jodie]

In my experience it was nothing but a lot of aggravation rather than a high.

 

[RedRatSnake]

Give me a few 10 #percosets and i'll believe in anything you like. Until the next day when i have to get back into reality.

 

[DozingConsciously]

Not people, one of these imaginary bigfoot. Or were you being sarcastic? I can't tell without emoticons. I have internet aspergers.

It was a deliberate misunderstanding / joke. I'll use smileys in future.

 

[Correa Neto]

Drew, LuvGodzilla, The Shrike & Co,

I think you are not touching one crucial point- not all believers are knowers (in the sense the “knowers” claim to have some sort of bigfoot-related experience, usually but not necessarily a sighting). Yes, judging from the material they post, most bigfoot proponents (and this includes some of the most vocal ones) never actually “saw” one. Taking their posts in to account, some (not the majority) claim to have experienced “activity” and/or bigfoot-related things (weird sounds in the woods, found tracks, etc.), but not a sighting.

So, I guess the proper questions should be “What’s making these people vocal, sometimes ferocious, defenders of the cause?” and “Why they believe?”

Plain outright fabrications and/or having been fooled in to belief by bigfootery hoaxes and frauds apart, I think there are two main causes: (1) Cultural background coupled with ignorance, as we discussed previously and (2) Bigfoot somehow became a key point in their lives. This is probably the main driving force in many cases. Maybe it’s a tale told by some relative(s) or community person(s), someone they trust, a trust which can not be broken, tainted or marred. A second possibility is that bigfoot belief is what sets them apart, it is what makes them special. They are part of the small group of people who keep the flame of truth alive, they know better than the rest of mankind, including those egghead white-coated lab rats and the incompetent/corrupt/lying government, not to mention those foolish skeptics.

I believe all the above factors are not independent; they act together in different people with different weights. Sure, if they are reinforced by an “experience” (again, assuming it is not a lie, but it may be a hoax made by someone else), well… You just built the perfect bigfootery templar knight.

At last but not least, remember- we all have been and will be fooled and/or mistaken about something sometime. The odds are all have some subject which we are complete suckers for (politics, sports, economy, women, men, you name it). Sure, we may keep it at bay, but the odds are every now and then we will fall for it. “This time my team will be the champion!” It’s the same with footers. Tendering a silly stupid belief doesn’t mean the believer is silly and stupid.

My team will win this year’s championship, after all. There’s no way it can lose. Not a chance in Hell, despite what you guys fans from other teams say. I know it. You know nothing, newspaper sports experts.

DISCLAIMER: I am quite outdated regarding bigfootery forums, so my footer samples come mostly from JREF. I must also add I have not made any actual statistics, so take the above with the prescribed doses of salt & pepper.

 

[StankApe]

Drew, LuvGodzilla, The Shrike & Co,

I think you are not touching one crucial point- not all believers are knowers (in the sense the “knowers” claim to have some sort of bigfoot-related experience, usually but not necessarily a sighting). Yes, judging from the material they post, most bigfoot proponents (and this includes some of the most vocal ones) never actually “saw” one. Taking their posts in to account, some (not the majority) claim to have experienced “activity” and/or bigfoot-related things (weird sounds in the woods, found tracks, etc.), but not a sighting.

So, I guess the proper questions should be “What’s making these people vocal, sometimes ferocious, defenders of the cause?” and “Why they believe?”

Plain outright fabrications and/or having been fooled in to belief by bigfootery hoaxes and frauds apart, I think there are two main causes: (1) Cultural background coupled with ignorance, as we discussed previously and (2) Bigfoot somehow became a key point in their lives. This is probably the main driving force in many cases. Maybe it’s a tale told by some relative(s) or community person(s), someone they trust, a trust which can not be broken, tainted or marred. A second possibility is that bigfoot belief is what sets them apart, it is what makes them special. They are part of the small group of people who keep the flame of truth alive, they know better than the rest of mankind, including those egghead white-coated lab rats and the incompetent/corrupt/lying government, not to mention those foolish skeptics.

I believe all the above factors are not independent; they act together in different people with different weights. Sure, if they are reinforced by an “experience” (again, assuming it is not a lie, but it may be a hoax made by someone else), well… You just built the perfect bigfootery templar knight.

At last but not least, remember- we all have been and will be fooled and/or mistaken about something sometime. The odds are all have some subject which we are complete suckers for (politics, sports, economy, women, men, you name it). Sure, we may keep it at bay, but the odds are every now and then we will fall for it. “This time my team will be the champion!” It’s the same with footers. Tendering a silly stupid belief doesn’t mean the believer is silly and stupid.

My team will win this year’s championship, after all. There’s no way it can lose. Not a chance in Hell, despite what you guys fans from other teams say. I know it. You know nothing, newspaper sports experts.

DISCLAIMER: I am quite outdated regarding bigfootery forums, so my footer samples come mostly from JREF. I must also add I have not made any actual statistics, so take the above with the prescribed doses of salt & pepper.

BOLDED MINE:

That's my thoughts. It's nearly the exact same behavior exhibited by hardcore conspiracy junkies. ONLY THEY KNOW THE REAL TRUTH!

It's part anti-intellectualism, part overcoming social awkwardness, part loneliness, and part self empowerment, all wrapped up in a big bow of sadness.

 

[The Shrike]

It's part anti-intellectualism, part overcoming social awkwardness, part loneliness, and part self empowerment, all wrapped up in a big bow of sadness.

Right. What I'm saying, however, is that a goodly proportion of the "knowers" - those folks with the most compelling stories - have simply made those stories up. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt that they experienced something. These days, no dice.

 

[StankApe]

@ Shrike

Yeah, back when I was on the BFF (before the meltdown incident....sigh things weren't going too well at home) I tended to agree, but since then, I have dug much more deeply into footery and have come to the same conclusion , though with three different facets.

1- people who made up stories to feel like they belong, and to feel like they are on the "inside" (this actually happened right before I left as a once familiar member there magically had a sighting while riding in a car with her husband after talking for months about how much she'd love to see one)

2- those who have a mental health issue (the habituators) - I think that some (if not most) of them have created this alternate world where they see these friendly magical creatures.

3- the mis-identifiers - I think some people really saw a critter , or a shadow, or a stump, and due to confirmation bias or maybe a limited view, they really suspect they saw something. and hence "know" that they exist


I guess you could say there's a 4th group- those who exhibit combinations of the other 3. They saw something weird, were a little flakey, joined a forum and found the new hobby "fun" so they eventually alter their story to "fit in better" or maybe even end up confirming their own sighting as "real" years later.


But boy do they hate us. You should see what the Bigfoot Evidence Commenters say about me, you,Parn and others. Granted, I've earned much of my hate as I don't always have the most genteel of arguing styles.

 

[LuvGodzilla]

Drew, LuvGodzilla, The Shrike & Co,

I think you are not touching one crucial point-

“What’s making these people vocal, sometimes ferocious, defenders of the cause?” and “Why they believe?”

A second possibility is that bigfoot belief is what sets them apart, it is what makes them special.

they know better than the rest of mankind, including those egghead white-coated lab rats and the incompetent/corrupt/lying government, not to mention those foolish skeptics.

At last but not least, remember- we all have been and will be fooled and/or mistaken about something sometime.

DISCLAIMER: I am quite outdated regarding bigfootery forums, so my footer samples come mostly from JREF.

I agree about missing an additional crucial point in terms of those that believe because they want to belong. I believe there is a demographic that would fit for a higher percentage.

Vocal defenders which fit your description of seeing themselves as more superior and intelligent than the experts/professionals in their field of study are the ones that have an impact on the naive and gullible. They desire the worship that comes their way. Some mention $$ as a motivator, perhaps to some, but worship/status in my opinion is the prize for many.

I was watching a news story on the GANN Twins (Con Men) that spent their time in jail, get back out and repeat, even going as far as to taunt the police. The con twins are good at what they do but not good enough, yet they appear to believe they can get away with it. Reminds me a great deal of the folks investigating the Elbe Trackway and how they play the game - their past is recorded and they seem to repeat it.

The tactics haven't changed up much over the years, the players may be dressed up in a different uniform this season but is still the same win-less team underneath.

Being fooled is being human, that is why so many enjoy April Fools

As for using the word "Stupid", I think that some of the things said and done are just plain "Stupid", it fits when necessary, yet I agree that Ignorance is rampant. I was ignorant when I began to look at this phenomena yet I made an effort to learn and that led me to JREF where among the thousands of discussion pages there is some really educational information. My thanks to those that spend that extra time at JREF helping others understand the flaws in arguments and how to apply critical thinking.

 

[mikeyx]

This has been an ongoing theme for many years. You can watch with certainty that when an "Elite" is questioned, their Footer friends come out of the woodwork to defend them regardless of right or wrong.



Not knowing the full background of the story based on a lack of full disclosure, my first question in this thread was wondering if these were not human tracks mis-identified.



You talked of tactics in others posts, deception is their practiced art, one of my pet peeves is their cropping of photographs or setting up shots that fail to show the full truth.



This is a common tactic, to use critical examination would require questioning their beliefs so the data will be cherry picked to fit their pre-determined conclusion.



They tend to find many "Buts" to manipulate the fallacy The consistent manipulators know that to say it enough will spread it and become accepted if it is spoken as fact. It's an interesting phenomena to watch, the wood knocking, rock throwing and stick structures are good examples of rumor becoming fact and part of the lore which must be included in most all reports.



Correa Neto, this is exactly what I found out when I began to search for answers about a relative's supposed experience. When digging and digging after many years and wading through the useless junk of bigfootery, the dots connected that my relatives cultural background and beliefs were the driving force no matter how many others tried to convince him otherwise. What I also found was an extreme example of embarrassment among the close family members that were a generation away from his culture but still had indoctrination into some of the belief system.



Drew, I think there is a lot more involved than sleep hallucination, and agree that a small percentage may have this phenomena occur. Just as there are weak-minded/gullible people that are easily led to belief. A whole new generation of Footers is being churned out by television shows and parents that are footers. They most likely won't have hallucinations but are indoctrinated into the belief system and every sound in the forest will be a Bigfoot.

The Elbe Trackway is the common jump the gun and hype that the supposed "Elite" need to keep themselves in the limelight, but in this case people seem to be a little more sick of the BS and are in a challenging mood because their 2012 hopes of Bigfoot discovery have been dashed over and over and as usual the "Elite" grabbed their balls and their pictures and went home. There-in is the deception and manipulation, it didn't work this time and the lies had to start to try and save face.

ABP talks about tactics, they really never change in Bigfootery

this had nothing to do with sleep deprived anything, it was hoax, and efforts by noll and pals to cover backside after the fact a witch hunt on the bff.

Drew's silly theory is just that.......

 

[clayflingythingy]

Some mention $$ as a motivator, perhaps to some, but worship/status in my opinion is the prize for many.

People like Moneygrubber, Barackman, & TheMelba = $$$

Worship/status is IMHO the driving force behind the Michigan Liars and the Area X liars. The Michigan liars were unsuccessful with their hoax. Hairy Man and Bipto seem to be doing well with their hoax, however. Not only are Bipto & Hairy Man getting high fives from the bleevers, they are probably hoping to get on some TV specials as well. I belive someone here posted that Bipto runs a marketing bidness?

 

[RedRatSnake]

The Michigan liars were unsuccessful with their hoax.

I thought that was going to be a big deal, at the time sounds were all the rage and their set up seemed to be what people were looking for.

 

[GT/CS]

Brian Brown - Owner of the digital marketing agency Ideapark, TBRC Marketing Director, TBRC Board of Directors, TBRC Field Investigator.

http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/2011/10/blips-and-gossips-from-2011-texas.html

 

[William Parcher]

The Michigan liars were unsuccessful with their hoax. Hairy Man and Bipto seem to be doing well with their hoax, however.

There was no "gotcha" with the MRP that proved it to be a hoax. It all just went away.

Bipto and his crew did learn a huge lesson from MRP. Never put your evidence in front of the public. Bigfoot evidence should only be presented to Bigfoot believers. Never to the public.

 

[Jodie]

People like Moneygrubber, Barackman, & TheMelba = $$$

I'ld run through the woods screaming periodically and saying "what's that?" or "did you hear that?" all while on night vision if someone would pay me. I can not criticize anyone for having the where with all to take advantage of easy money.

 

[GT/CS]

There was no "gotcha" with the MRP that proved it to be a hoax. It all just went away.

Bipto and his crew did learn a huge lesson from MRP. Never put your evidence in front of the public. Bigfoot evidence should only be presented to Bigfoot believers. Never to the public.

Or better yet, don't put any evidence in front of anyone. Bipto hasn't presented anything has he, other than the occasional choir-preaching stories?

 

[Sonny2]

Not me, Jodie. I'd worry about getting shot. Not by the Bigfoot hunters, but by the people I was duping.

Another element to all this is like the experience of a friend. He had a couple of strange things happen in the woods, but really thought nothing of them (figured they were coyotes), then ran into a BFRO guy, who promptly tried to convince him they were Bigfoot encounters and he should report them. My friend got into it, thinking, wow, what if...then came to his senses. But for awhile, it was very exciting to him. So, Bigfootery can inject a bit of adrenelin into an otherwise mundane life. People feed on this like Bigfoot supposedly feeds on pancakes. Maybe it goes back to some survival gene that needs to get exercised once in awhile.

 

[Jodie]

I get that in the clinic.

 

[clayflingythingy]

I'ld run through the woods screaming periodically and saying "what's that?" or "did you hear that?" all while on night vision if someone would pay me. I can not criticize anyone for having the where with all to take advantage of easy money.

Moneygrubber and the BFRO have been hosting "expeditions" with paying clients for years. The BFRO has been a con/fleece/find the mark from the beginning. It's not just the Finding BF TV show. Nor does the Finding BF TV show have a disclaimer @ the beginning and end that it was "for entertainment purposes only" that I can recall.

You and I have different concepts of what is ethical.

 

[Jodie]

No , I think you and I have different concepts of what entertainment is versus real research.

The show does not put itself out there as anything other than entertainment ,
although I can't stand to watch it. I can't say what MM does in regards to promoting his trips. If he is promising that you will see a bigfoot then that would be misrepresentation. I see most people going on those trips as being adults who have a right to choose their form of entertainment regardless of what I think about it.

 

[GT/CS]

You give the TV-watching public, and the bigfoot expedition suckers, way too much credit.
Don't think like an intelligent adult. Try thinking a little lower and see how easy it is for the MMMs of the world to fleece certain members of the public.