Elbe Trackway

I think it is human tendency to NOT admit that you have had what some people would consider "A weak moment", or a "defective brain incident".

I think this is a fundamental point. Perhaps the only difference between the skeptics and the believers (as opposed to the priesthood) is the relative ease with which they are able to accept these possibilities. I think, in general, the more skeptically-minded tend to be those who've come to consider not-being-right a good thing, an opportunity to improve by learning from a mistake. I can certainly remember a time when I didn't necessarily think that way; that being inferentially wrong was an emotional slight which should be guarded against and rejected rather than inspected and enjoyed as an opportunity for education.

I (and I suspect many others) had something of a turning point with regard to the ease with which the brain can be mistaken. Most of my life, I'd heard all the stories (without particularly searching in any depth for evidence) about how easy it was for the brain to be fooled, but I never really bought into or believed them; to whatever extent they were true, it was something that happened to other people, less canny than I.

Then, one day, about 15 years ago, I had what I'd call a 'perspective mirage'. We've probably all had trivial examples of them; they often occur when looking at grid patterns or dots -- for example looking through fencing -- where your depth perception gets fooled for a little while. It's amusing but not necessarily an earth-shattering revelation.

On this occasion, I was driving in the mountains, the sun was very low but bright in the west and I was heading eastwards on a tight mountain road. I drove around a bend and slowly came up behind something that I had a devil of a time identifying. I'd had plenty of sleep, was wide awake (apart from the mollifying effect of having spent three solid hours driving), was decently fed, was not ill, had not had any alcohol or other perception-alterants and was not on medication, but for all the world it looked as if, a hundred to a hundred and fifty feet in front of me, there was a children's steel climbing frame floating / flying slowly down the middle of the road. It wasn't travelling very fast -- perhaps 20 mph -- so I braked to match its speed because the road was so narrow that there was no over-taking opportunity, and followed it for at least 10 to 15 seconds increasingly mind-blown and uncomprehending as what I was seeing. That's quite a substantial amount of time when you're constantly looking at something that seems impossible.

At the end of this straight-ish section of road, we started to turn around a bend and the illusion shattered because the light and consequently the shadows moved and my brain was able to pattern-recognize the actual pattern. Instead of a steel climbing frame, it was an old man wearing a tweed jacket, tweed cap and tweed trousers pedalling an old-fashioned bicycle-and-sidecar. The sidecar had steel trimming at its 'seams' and contained some kind of grid -- perhaps a piece of fencing or a large barbecue grill; and perched on the back of the bicycle was a short (5-6ft) aluminium ladder. The effect of the bright, low, sunlight behind me had been such that the grill, the sidecar seams, the mudguards, the suspension, the rims, the ladder, the seatpost, the reflectors of his lights (which were off) and the strip of grey hair visible beneath the back of the cap had all 'glared', severely messing with my depth perception and resolving into a sort of 2D tableau of 'brightness' that my brain had failed to resolve and thereby come up with the next-best interpretation. On top of this, the tweed clothing was an almost perfect tonal match for the faded-brown mountainside which was the backdrop, and along with the tyres partly being concealed by hedge-shadow was practically invisible against the contrast of the glare.

I had one of those, "Oh, that's what they mean" moments. It was phenomenally educational in the ways that the brain tries to make sense of its inputs, even if that 'sense' isn't really that sensible. What's particularly interesting is that, if we'd been interrupted before we reached the end of the relative straightaway -- e.g. if some wildlife had run into the road and I'd had to brake, or my phone had rung, or a car had turned out in front of me -- and my view had been blocked before we went around the bend and the old fella had turned into a sideroad, I wouldn't have been in the position I was to see the illusion shatter, and I'd have spent the rest of my life cogitating about just what the hell it was I saw up on that remote road.

Consider also the skeptical explainability of it. Who on earth would ponder a be-tweed-en old man and the perfect configuration of shining steel on a sidecar-ed bicycle as the right explanation? If I'd been prone to the mysterious (e.g. "I saw a UFO"), owing to its inherently convoluted nature you'd get laughed out of 'plausibility court' for having the temerity to suggest the correct cause.

I think this is particularly relevant to bigfoot as forests are one of the worst environments for generating the types of conditions that give rise to these kinds of experience: you have vertical barriers (the trees) at normally-distributed (seemingly random) depths and sizes; these have myriad other semi-random barriers (the branches) in all manner of configurations, and the tonal backdrop is a noisy myriad of browns, greens, reds, blacks, and golds, with scattered lightless patches, leading to multiple 3D 'windows' and the illusion of windows in the gaps between them. It's easy to confuse the natural parallax of a distant brown tone (a tree trunk) viewed through a 'window' with motion of something large and brown closer-up.

TLDR: It's VERY easy to misidentify things.
 
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In 'footery you have suggestibility at work too, in terms of "seeing" bigfoot. There is a lot of interesting work on the power of suggestibility before the event and suggestibility after.

The suggestibility afterwards is in the literature on eyewitness interviewing and how eyewitness testimony is so easily manipulated by the interviewer either asking leading questions or feeding false information.

Suggestibility beforehand is pretty well known on these boards for all manner of woo - ghosts, UFOs, bigfoot. There are some works on how anxiety or other emotional states affect the degree of suggestibility we are prone to. Certain personality types are much more suggestible than others.

But this is just one small aspect of the phenomenon, regarding sightings. A lot of reasons people fall into the 'footer vortex.

Oh thanks, Drewbot. And Slocie's. I think the bottom line is that my wife does not like me posting, and I won't explain further than that but her concerns are valid. In that short absence I got an article submitted to a journal and a project done for work, so there's definitely a cost to this addiction.

I never got responses back from the County regarding my Area X inquiries, but it is pretty clear to me the second site I identified is the correct one and not the first. A couple people wondered if I had gone down there, but my priority still lies in re-creating Roger Patterson's trip to Thailand. Donations are way behind expectations though. It is almost as if people are skeptical of my intentions.
 
You should contact one of those funding websites, like the one Bill Munn's attempted to get funding for a documentary from.

ABP- Sasquatch Research- Thailand Excursion, Operation Endurance

$40,000

Level 1 donation- you get a picture of ABP with the local business people, signed by ABP
Level 2 donation- a signed copy of ABP research journal
Level 3 donation- you get credited in the final product.
 
You should contact one of those funding websites, like the one Bill Munn's attempted to get funding for a documentary from.

ABP- Sasquatch Research- Thailand Excursion, Operation Endurance

$40,000

Level 1 donation- you get a picture of ABP with the local business people, signed by ABP
Level 2 donation- a signed copy of ABP research journal
Level 3 donation- you get credited in the final product.


Level VIP donation- you're there in the trenches getting drenched, and finding out the real meat of the story.
 
These people are not honest people, and spend more time covering each other's "tracks"

This has been an ongoing theme for many years. You can watch with certainty that when an "Elite" is questioned, their Footer friends come out of the woodwork to defend them regardless of right or wrong.

You mean to tell me it never occurred to them that this could be people prints considering where it is?? Why on earth would you think it was bigfoot right away?

Not knowing the full background of the story based on a lack of full disclosure, my first question in this thread was wondering if these were not human tracks mis-identified.

it's just so clear how uniformly deceptive the "researchers" are about this,

You talked of tactics in others posts, deception is their practiced art, one of my pet peeves is their cropping of photographs or setting up shots that fail to show the full truth.

when a person fails to critically examine every factor involved in an investigation, then that would be stupid.

This is a common tactic, to use critical examination would require questioning their beliefs so the data will be cherry picked to fit their pre-determined conclusion.

What I do regard as stupid are the logical fallacies that are deployed on a daily basis as justifications for the belief.

They tend to find many "Buts" to manipulate the fallacy ;) The consistent manipulators know that to say it enough will spread it and become accepted if it is spoken as fact. It's an interesting phenomena to watch, the wood knocking, rock throwing and stick structures are good examples of rumor becoming fact and part of the lore which must be included in most all reports.

I have, however, the impression it is mostly related to ignorance and having a cultural background composed by other previous beliefs which paved the way.

Correa Neto, this is exactly what I found out when I began to search for answers about a relative's supposed experience. When digging and digging after many years and wading through the useless junk of bigfootery, the dots connected that my relatives cultural background and beliefs were the driving force no matter how many others tried to convince him otherwise. What I also found was an extreme example of embarrassment among the close family members that were a generation away from his culture but still had indoctrination into some of the belief system.

CN-
Is a person stupid if they have had a detailed sleep hallucination of a Giant Hairy Monster crashing through some bushes, and thus believe there must be a Bigfoot?

Drew, I think there is a lot more involved than sleep hallucination, and agree that a small percentage may have this phenomena occur. Just as there are weak-minded/gullible people that are easily led to belief. A whole new generation of Footers is being churned out by television shows and parents that are footers. They most likely won't have hallucinations but are indoctrinated into the belief system and every sound in the forest will be a Bigfoot.

The Elbe Trackway is the common jump the gun and hype that the supposed "Elite" need to keep themselves in the limelight, but in this case people seem to be a little more sick of the BS and are in a challenging mood because their 2012 hopes of Bigfoot discovery have been dashed over and over and as usual the "Elite" grabbed their balls and their pictures and went home. There-in is the deception and manipulation, it didn't work this time and the lies had to start to try and save face.

ABP talks about tactics, they really never change in Bigfootery :rolleyes:
 
In the olden days, I was way too concerned with trying to determine the various ways in which a person could be fooled into thinking that s/he had seen a bigfoot. Over the years, it's become increasingly apparent that the great majority of those people do not, in fact, think they've seen bigfoots. They're just plain making up this crap.
 
But if you tell people about seeing a bigfoot they think you are nuts, who wants that? Never mind, Honey Booh Booh just popped into my head.
 
In the olden days, I was way too concerned with trying to determine the various ways in which a person could be fooled into thinking that s/he had seen a bigfoot. Over the years, it's become increasingly apparent that the great majority of those people do not, in fact, think they've seen bigfoots. They're just plain making up this crap.

In the general case, I agree with you. A great many are fantasists, religious or blowing up the most minor "don't know what that was" experiences up into full-blown encounters. But I think there's a hard core of people who strongly and genuinely believe they've seen something, and I find them semi-interesting because, even though they probably total no more than 10% of the believer population (and that's being generous), in many cases it's their stridency that acts as covering fire and validation for the others, and thus act disproportionately as enablers.
 
Somebody needs to shoot one of the critters and put us all out of our misery.
 
Are Bigfoot proponents stupid? Don't think so. What they are, are believers. Are Catholics stupid? Are Methodists? What about Mormons? Are UFO proponents merely stupid? How about those who think ghosts are real, or ESP? Etc.,etc.

If believers are stupid, then Aquinas was stupid? W.F. Buckley? Kant?
Martin Luther King? Ivan T. Sanderson?

I long ago was disabused of the notion that people with whom I have fundamental disagreements are stupid.

Bigfoot believers share with other believers a need to believe and that need overrides any relevant counter evidence (which would mitigate the belief).

As it relates to Bigfoot, I should know. I spent many years believing in Bigfoot and I can tell everyone here that if anyone mentioned the lack of conclusive evidence of Bigfoot, or why we should already have a body if Bigfoot existed, I would yawn: there is nothing fun or intriguing or important in contemplating the non-existence of Bigfoot. I had an exciting belief that set me apart. Why would I give that up for mere facts and reason? Most people don't, don't you know.
 
I had an exciting belief that set me apart. Why would I give that up for mere facts and reason? Most people don't, don't you know.

Hey that's a good post :) I felt the same way and was having fun with the notion that something like a BF could be real, hell what does a city kid know about the country. It wasn't until i joined the BFF and started to dig around that I became aware some were very dishonest and using the myth to make money anyway they could.

It is not a real flesh and blood creature, it is a man made creature with a large support team and blind followers that had been tricked into a belief by a very complicated and well organized team of Hoaxers, that like to make money off those that feared and loved the idea of Bigfoot so much, they cannot fathom the idea of not having it.
 
Well they don't have it now, what are y'all talking about? There is a whole world of difference between "knowing" and "believing"..
 
Well they don't have it now, what are y'all talking about? There is a whole world of difference between "knowing" and "believing"..

Yes.

Knowing is good, but believing is feeling good. The difference between milk and cocaine.
 

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