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Elbe Trackway

Tontar said:
In part, out of respect for the researchers. The longer it drags on, the more you continue to prod for answers you are not going to get, the longer you drag everyone through the mud. And that includes the researchers. You should give it a break and find another topic to focus on.
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Thx for the reply Tontar.

So, you admit then you are not answering my question so you can 'stick it' to the investigators?
 
RayG said:
That applies to the Elbe trackway too. It's not a real controversy however, because some of us can easily produce a timeline showing specific statements by the principals involved, wherein they are promoting the trackway as 'real' (ie. not hoaxed) from the very beginning. But it's not so easy for others to produce a timeline showing specific statements by the principals involved, wherein they voiced their suspicions that the tracks were 'hoaxed' (ie. not real) from the very beginning, .

I'm curious as to what sort of compelling argument you've seen in favor of the bigfoot butt print?

RayG
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Hi Ray. Your first comment. I agree. I'm not claiming they weren't intially 'duped' at all. I think you made a good argument.

I think the 'suspicious from the beginning' comment was made at or about the 5 day mark from the intial BFF post, you are the timeline guy, have you come across anything like that?

Ray, if i have time, I'll perhaps post in the skookum thread. But honestly, anything I post there has been discussed and dismissed by your side for various reasons so perhaps I'll save you and I both the time and remain discussing the Elbe Trackway.
 
clayflingythingy said:
Muldur,

Please epresent your evidence.

Your failure to present evidence to contradict RayG's timeline can be seen as an admission that you have no evidence and that Noll and company were indeed promoting the trackway as real and are now lying in an attempt to cover up that fact.
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Is that the same as a failure to outright deny involvement in something when asked repeatedly could be seen as an admission?
 
Correa Neto said:
Oh, I am pretty sure they will answer. They will say "no" and I bet they will sound sincere. It seems this will even sounds good for you, comfortably reinforcing your beliefs. Despite of this, PGF is a hoax and fake bigfoot casts are being sold. Even if you are naïve and gullible and take shelter underneath the unsustainable "undecided" position will not help you. Even for you it will be an undeniable fact that both are profiting on things suspected of being frauds and this is not ethical. I'll touch this particular issue again later.

Back to accepting answers that match preconceived notions, what use would a "yes" or "no" from Tontar have for you? Would you accept a "no"?

Still along this line, but moving a bit forward, would you accept "no hoax" answers from Gimlim and Meldrum? Do you consider as being ethical the act of profiting on things suspected to be hoaxed?

Lets move even a bit further- Can you see the paralels between Elbe trackway, GA Boyz bigfoot-in-a-freezer, that bigfoot face close-up I can't remember the name, Dfoot's "picture test" of his Patty suit and P&T bigfoot footage? All of them fooled footers (at least for a while). All of them raised rage among footers. All of them showed how easy it is to fool footers, regardless of their ranks. Skeptics also were instrumental on busting them. Its no wonder the "best" evidence is decades-old... So, footer rage should be directed to their own ranks by being so gullible, so easy to fool. Footer rage should be especially directed towards their upper ranks for profiting over the lower ranks after feeding them with garbage and hoaxes.

Bigfootery upper and mid ranks- these are the folks you should be actually questioning. Meldrum, Gimlim, Coleman, Munns, Ketchum, Noll, Bipto, etc.
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Excellent post.

So you feel that all you have posted above is provable beyond a reasonable doubt. Correct?

Can you direct me where it is undeniably proven that the PGF is a hoax?

Can you direct me where Meldrum is selling proven faked tracks as 'the real deal'?

To answer your question about Tontar and his repsonse. It's very simple. I will stop asking him the question. What I do with that info, as some have so eloquently put it in prior posts 'is none of your business'.

From Gimlin and Meldrum, the same would occur. I would stop asking, put it on record, and move forward.

Profiting from suspected hoaxes is A-OK if you are not selling them as 'the real deal'. See my previous request above. And yes, I will take issue with that.

Your last paragraph is spot on. However, I am not those folks. I am not a bleever as some have accused me of. I am simply trying to find the truth here about the Elbe Trackway. Is there something wrong with that?
 
DozingConsciously said:
I think there's something else -- a bit more abstract -- going on with this whole thing, though. I mentioned earlier that it's been observed that the faithful often find the existential struggle with the faith a necessary component of the appeal of the faith. With certain other environs having been somewhat ... defanged ... of late, the acolytes themselves become restless with nothing to test themselves against. Hence the appeal of this incident and this arena.
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I would like to take this opportunity to point out that I was a member of the JRef long before the BFF.

The epitomy of armchair demonstrated nicely above.
 
Cotter said:
<snip>
Ray, if i have time, I'll perhaps post in the skookum thread. But honestly, anything I post there has been discussed and dismissed by your side for various reasons so perhaps I'll save you and I both the time and remain discussing the Elbe Trackway.
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Hilarious! Trying to pretend that there are two sides to the issue as if there are valid arguments for proponents of the Skookum Cast is pure perfidy.

Imagination and deliberate obtuseness does NOT an argument make.

Cotter reminds me of the comedian Dara O'Brian's bit about a BBC presenter talking to a NASA scientist about the International Space Station.
After talking to the scientist about the amazing wonders and accomplishments of the Space Station - for the sake of "balance"- the host turns to "Barry" who believes that the sky is a carpet painted by god.

I think I will just refer to Cotter as "Barry" from now on.
 
yeah that whole "both sides have equal value" might fly in grammar school art class, but in the real world it just isn't true.

The PGF has never been proven to be anything other than a man in a suit. This is the null hypothesis, if you have evidence showing the null hypothesis to be wrong, we'd be glad to look at it. (see above in regards to Meldrum's print casts)
 
Well folks. I can see that only but a few of my direct questions have been answered. Seems to be a theme around here, huh? Not responding to the 'tough' ones? I would like to note that when requested information about the 'obvious facts' that so many have made reference to, not one of you provided any sort of backing evidence. I was under the impression it didn't work that way.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised - birds of a feather....

Though I would like to thank the few of you that did take time to respond with some good information. I'll be keeping it in mind as I continue to dig into this phenomenon.

Tontar - no hard feelings OK? I know you've been through a lot of unanticipated hardship. I take it you learned a lot about computers as well. Y'know? It would have been nice to see a bit of integrity on this one.

Take care, look forward to seeing that suit you are building and the documentary you and Kit are working together on.

Tontar - if you have any questions for me, please feel free to PM me here or on the BFF. As it stands, I don't have anything further to discuss in this thread in light of the available evidence or cooperation.
 
The only question I saw you ask was whether Tontar committed a hoax. You never expounded on why you would have a reason to ask that. If you had evidence other than hearsay that I requested from you, you never produced it. My take home impression for such an attitude is that you don't have it, and thought we might, so I guess it was a wasted exercise in what I would call ego tripping.
 
Cotter, who are you and what is your true interest? You're doing your best at sleuthing this thing out, I'll give you that. But posting assumptions that you should know are inaccurate appear to be fishing for responses more than anything else. If you know anything about Kitakaze's projects, you should know that I am not a partner in his documentary. I'm certain that you every bit about it as I do.

If you want to slight me for a lack of integrity, that's fine. I can live with that.
 
Cotter:

before trolling perhaps you should give us an itemized list of these unanswered questions you have in a A) , B), C) ............etc format and we shall do our best to answer them for you.
 
One thing I hope Tontar learned is that there are a lot of obsessive, unstable people involved in Bigfootry.
 
Drewbot said:
One thing I hope Tontar learned is that there are a lot of obsessive, unstable people involved in Bigfootry.
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NO ****

Edited by LashL: 
Edited to properly mask profanity. Please see Rule 10 re: the auto-censor.


I was basically forum stalked by an unstable woman on the B.E. forums (any post I made on ANY subject was immediately followed by a post by her chastising me. often without any regards to MY post at all). I finally had enough and complained (and I was a mod of the non-bigfoot section) and nothing happened except I got harassed by another mod for "arguing" and "causing problems" eventually I left and most of the reasonable people left with me.


IMO, A WHOLE HECK OF A LOT of active footers are suffering from some sort of mental health issues.
 
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Oh now Stank Ape, I don't know about that.Bigfootery has its fair share, and then some of quacks, but assigning percentages is like a proponent trying to guess the size of the bigfoot population.
 
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