[Ed]Hardfire with Mark Roberts and Arthur Scheuerman

[TheRedWorm]

Assuming what you say is true, what this doesn't account for is why not a single firefighter has come forward in the intervening six years to express even the slightest bit of doubt or suspicion regarding the "official explanation" for the collapse of WTC7.

Not a single one.

So far none of your brethren has been able reconcile this inconvenient fact with an inside job that doesn't include complicity of rank and file firefighters.

I'd love to see you give it a try.

Bump for anyone who would like to try.

 

[aggle-rithm]

....only people who are the head of something get to understand, measure, predict, or make decisions based on any information. Everyone else falls under people who are the head of something, and they blindly do what they're told without question.

Sounds like a job at a fast-food restaurant. I wonder where troofers get this model of reality...?

 

[aggle-rithm]

It's quite presumptious of you to assume you know anything about me, how I responded to these events and how I continue to deal with them.

It is not presumptuous at all to say what your actions SEEM like to me. Tell me what productive steps you have taken to bring your "knowledge" to those in authority who can do something about it. I will then withdraw my remarks with an apology.

It takes discipline to discuss these issues dispassionately and the only way to research the unfortunate details.

Yes, but keep in mind that it takes more than discussing issues dispassionately to be right.

 

[CHF]

I'm still waiting to hear who "they" are, Red.

 

[RedIbis]

I'm still waiting to hear who "they" are, Red.

Didn't you see my response to your obnoxious crossthread stalking?

 

[RedIbis]

It is not presumptuous at all to say what your actions SEEM like to me. Tell me what productive steps you have taken to bring your "knowledge" to those in authority who can do something about it. I will then withdraw my remarks with an apology.

None of your damn business.

Yes, but keep in mind that it takes more than discussing issues dispassionately to be right.

True, but it helps.

 

[SDC]

Please check Gravy's list of Eyewitness Accounts to the Withdrawal of WTC 7
Notice how many of the accounts refer to "they" as to who said or handed down the word that the bldg was going to collapse.

Look at how many times the firefighters refer to what "they said" as to when, how and in what direction the bldg was going to collapse.

The firefighters in general did not assess that the bldg was going to collapse, the firefighters passed on the word they'd received.

I'm kind of proud that I didn't check Jref all weekend. But it does make me feel, today, late to the party.

Red I., I think you are trying to imply that "they said" means "the firefighters were told by agents of the vast conspiracy."

But in standard colloquial English "they said" is common impersonal usage. It doesn't mean "the people in authority" necessarily. It means "it was said," or "someone said," or "some people said," without getting more specific. German uses "man." Russian and Polish and Ukrainian (and probably other Slavic languages with which I am less familiar) use adverbial or passive constructions.

Languages need these kind of impersonal statements. This is how English does it.

 

[RedIbis]

I'm kind of proud that I didn't check Jref all weekend. But it does make me feel, today, late to the party.

Red I., I think you are trying to imply that "they said" means "the firefighters were told by agents of the vast conspiracy."

But in standard colloquial English "they said" is common impersonal usage. It doesn't mean "the people in authority" necessarily. It means "it was said," or "someone said," or "some people said," without getting more specific. German uses "man." Russian and Polish and Ukrainian (and probably other Slavic languages with which I am less familiar) use adverbial or passive constructions.

Languages need these kind of impersonal statements. This is how English does it.

If you would have checked the list I linked to you would see that there is an antecedent for the pronoun, "they."

 

[SDC]

If you would have checked the list I linked to you would see that there is an antecedent for the pronoun, "they."

That isn't significant. Listen to your (I think) compatriots; Americans use "they" to use just about anyone indefinite, uncertain, anonymous, or just plain in the area. One antecedent doth not a summer make.

I should add, since we are splitting verbal hairs here, you've tangled up your use of the conditional. You should have said, "If you would have checked... [then (implied)] you would have seen..."

Or, "If you would check... you would see..." Or even "If you check... You will see..."

Come on, snort some more of that caffeine. At least EST we are into the PM.

 

[johnny karate]

Assuming what you say is true, what this doesn't account for is why not a single firefighter has come forward in the intervening six years to express even the slightest bit of doubt or suspicion regarding the "official explanation" for the collapse of WTC7.

Not a single one.

So far none of your brethren has been able reconcile this inconvenient fact with an inside job that doesn't include complicity of rank and file firefighters.

I'd love to see you give it a try.

Bump for RedIbis.

 

[einsteen]

Gravy is an entertaining guy of course but he doesn't add anything valuable to the discussion. I think Mr Wieck should put a CD expert in his show, that would be really informative. And then no pointless discussion about "pull it" but a more technical approach. What is needed to bring such a building down, about pre-weakening, what are the differences with a CD, why is that nutter Jowenko wrong etc. What did they think when they heard about wtc7, etc etc

 

[CHF]

I think Mr Wieck should put a CD expert in his show, that would be really informative.

You know Brent Blanchard wrote a paper just for you guys, right?

And then no pointless discussion about "pull it" but a more technical approach. What is needed to bring such a building down, about pre-weakening, what are the differences with a CD

It's been done many times before, and no - the realities of a CD do not match 9/11. You haven't listened to the CD industry so far so why would you start now?

why is that nutter Jowenko wrong etc.

You tell us, einstein. Jowenko agrees with us debunkers more often than he does with you guys.

 

[RedIbis]

Bump for RedIbis.

If you're going to be obnoxious and bump posts that deal with speculation, at least ask a specific question, preferably one that is succinct.

 

[TheRedWorm]

Not a single firefighter has come forward in the intervening six years to express even the slightest bit of doubt or suspicion regarding the "official explanation" for the collapse of WTC7. Why is that?

Succinct enough for government work.

 

[RedIbis]

Not a single firefighter has come forward in the intervening six years to express even the slightest bit of doubt or suspicion regarding the "official explanation" for the collapse of WTC7. Why is that?

Succinct enough for government work.

Is the opinion of the collapse available from every firefighter on the scene?

Those quotes which are available suggest that the word was passed down to those on the scene, not that it was their independent assessment.

Even I'm getting bored of making this point, repeatedly.

 

[Minadin]

Do you then disagree that most of the firefighters at the scene were competent enough in their training to make that assessment themselves? Or, at the very minimum, question that assessment if it didn't seem to fit the situation? Yet, none of them have come forward with any questions or contradictions.

 

[RedIbis]

Do you then disagree that most of the firefighters at the scene were competent enough in their training to make that assessment themselves? Or, at the very minimum, question that assessment if it didn't seem to fit the situation? Yet, none of them have come forward with any questions or contradictions.

Your question is irrelevent. The distinction is between what Gravy and others claim they knew was going to happen and what they were told was going to happen.

 

[CHF]

Your question is irrelevent. The distinction is between what Gravy and others claim they knew was going to happen and what they were told was going to happen.

And if they were told by, say, other FDNY or first responders....what then, Red?

 

[Arus808]

And why does red think that the Firefighters can't think for themselves about a situation, seeing as they the ones that are educated in fire safety?

 

[RedIbis]

And if they were told by, say, other FDNY or first responders....what then, Red?

That's not what's indicated by Gravy's list.

Be honest, have you or have you not gone through that long list of WTC 7 eyetwitnesses?