Merged [Ed] Get involved detecting the ade 651 detector / Jim McCormick arrested

Sniffex scammers capitalize on tragedy in India to sell bogus explosive detectors.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/006200901191433.htm

Private security firms gear up to tap security market
New Delhi (PTI): Demand for more advanced technology solutions to counter threats triggered by the recent terror attacks has led to private security firms gearing up to tap this fast growing market.

"We have conceptualised and successfully implemented security solutions like video analytics. An add-on to the basic CCTV system, these intelligent software can identify any unwanted activity and alarm the control room. X-ray baggage scanners and portable explosive detectors like Sniffex have also been put in action at various places," says Sunil Nihal Duggal, CMD, Vision Group, a security solutions provider....
 
Oh No another bloody fraud being marketed and sold from the UK:-
Check out the website does this look familiar??????

Intelligence Counter Security & Surveillance

U.K.Ltd., 39 Brick Lane, London E1 6PU,Tel: 08712641758,Fax:448712648847
www.icssuk.com,
E-mail: [email protected]

....and, of course, all reputable companies include a premium rate telephone number when they're trying to sell their product. :cool:

http://www.btbroadbandoffice.com/phone-services/08-and-09-numbers/0871
 
Longtabber,

Please forgive my exasperation. I appreciate your patience in looking at this with fresh eyes.


You are correct that the claims in the advertising do not match the claims in the patent.

My best suggestion is don't be surprised if you find all manner of contradiction in your reading of how these things supposedly work. All too often it is rationalization after the fact for a phenomenon they witnessed (the ideomotor effect) but to which they are trying to come up with another explaination.

Thats OK

>>>Please forgive my exasperation. I appreciate your patience in looking at this with fresh eyes.

I have a real world vested interest in this myself. First, being a Vet and former "longtabber" ( Special Forces Tab- the "long" one as opposed to the "short" tab [ RANGER]) and many of my friends are in the line of fire still.

I'm also a contractor who works over there ( LOGPAC type projects)

In short, I'm not playing games here in this particular thread and it has nothing to do with Randi, the MDC or anything else. I've just attended too many "Roll Calls" and they all suck.

>>>You are correct that the claims in the advertising do not match the claims in the patent.

I've only done a "glance" review as of this post but from skimming- they are in fact talking about 2 totally different devices at least in the construction. ( the drawings in the patents clearly mention external power sources, coax cables to connect the units and illustrate coils/resistors as well as synchronous wave antenna- its impossible by the laws of physics for those components to function without an electrical power source)

What that means at the moment is uncertain but they are 2 different devices. ( with the sniffex et al a variation of the theme)

>>>My best suggestion is don't be surprised if you find all manner of contradiction in your reading of how these things supposedly work.

Already seen that and again after only a cursory glance ( which will change after me and my guys really look deep) I could make a theoretical argument that the patent device has potential to possibly do something ( not exactly sure what) but the components listed wont function the way the patent says they will. ( like the antenna moving down the coil like an electric gauge- that is roughly how those work ( like a tuner on a hobby crystal radio with a germanium diode turning an AM signal into weak DC power) but something that big would have to have a servo assist and none is shown)


>>>All too often it is rationalization after the fact for a phenomenon they witnessed (the ideomotor effect) but to which they are trying to come up with another explaination.

I'm aware of that and am immune to the effect. ( I've done this too many times)
 
Longtabber,

Besides the Navy tests of the Sniffex, similar products like the MOLE, Alpha 6, Quadro Tracker, etc have been tested by Sandia Laboratory and the National Institute of Justice.

Reading the articles, the engineers seem to be surprised someone would be so bold as to sell an empty plastic box with a radio antenna on it for $8000. But in fact, that is what they do. From their manual, the only coil or thing close to a wire in Sniffex seems to be a metal spring.

http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/2007/03/what-do-experts-think-about-sniffex.html

http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/2007/03/is-sniffex-really-first-of-its-kind.html

Prior analysis has shown the contents of these "detectors" to include:
- A piece of paper with a picture of explosives or drugs to program the detector.
- A piece of plastic with a substance consistent with human sweat
- A dead ant
 
I have just sent the following to The Hindu in the hope that it will get some interest there and put the brakes on Sniffex and the rest getting too many sales in he aftermath of the terrorist attack:

Sir,

In your article today you quote Sunil Nihal Duggal, CMD, Vision Group,mentioning that his company have implemented security solutions including
Sniffex, described as a portable explosives detector.

Sniffex does not work. It is a fraud and will put lives at risk if relied on.

Please refer to the following for background information:

http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com

I urge you to investigate the use of this product further and to publish an article showing why no one should be using Sniffex.
Brave Police Officers, Army personnel, private security contractors and the public could easily die if they rely on Sniffex.

Please do not waste a moment exposing this terrible fraud. If anyone says we are wrong then please approach the most#reputable University in India,
and ask their Physics department to set up properly controlled double blind tests. These will prove that the equipment does not work,
and I am sure that eminent physicists will agree that the claimed technical properties are nonsense.

Thank you.
 
Longtabber,

Besides the Navy tests of the Sniffex, similar products like the MOLE, Alpha 6, Quadro Tracker, etc have been tested by Sandia Laboratory and the National Institute of Justice.

Reading the articles, the engineers seem to be surprised someone would be so bold as to sell an empty plastic box with a radio antenna on it for $8000. But in fact, that is what they do. From their manual, the only coil or thing close to a wire in Sniffex seems to be a metal spring.

http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/2007/03/what-do-experts-think-about-sniffex.html

http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/2007/03/is-sniffex-really-first-of-its-kind.html

Prior analysis has shown the contents of these "detectors" to include:
- A piece of paper with a picture of explosives or drugs to program the detector.
- A piece of plastic with a substance consistent with human sweat
- A dead ant

Slowly but surely, we are going thru it

>>>Besides the Navy tests of the Sniffex, similar products like the MOLE, Alpha 6, Quadro Tracker, etc have been tested by Sandia Laboratory and the National Institute of Justice.

Yeah, I'm conversing with a guy I know who does testing for the NIJ to see what else there is. I really want to find an Army test of similar devices because I might actually get to get some of that firsthand information.

>>>Reading the articles, the engineers seem to be surprised someone would be so bold as to sell an empty plastic box with a radio antenna on it for $8000. But in fact, that is what they do.

Must be young engineers LOL. One thing i have learned in my 30+ yr career is that there is a separate entity known as the "business mind" that operates on some alien frequency. They have this idea that in order to show they are in line with the current "flavor of the month" business ideology ( be it safety,security, racial sensitivity or whatever)- they form a committee and cut a PO to buy the "solution" or use the most "simple" of flawed logic. ( they make me lots of money)

I know of 1 plant manager who thought he had the solution to cut his overhead and that was to fire his whole maintenance department because all of his operators "knew" their machines and could keep them in tip top shape he has now been terminated and we have a maintenance contract in place.

The good news is that this is rare in industry because there is normally an engineering proposal outlining what a device needs to do and a evaluation team comprised of engineers in the appropriate disciplines.

As far as the patent goes- you cant patent a theory but only an application of a theory and thats what has happened here.

As far as the theory goes, theoretically such a device is within the realm of engineering possibility in the general sense. ( as far as detecting a signature)

The problems creep in in the description of how the device applies the theory.

I can accept that an object could detect signatures but not at the ranges and conditions described.

I cannot accept that it could identify specifically anything or differentiate between signatures. ( I could accept it if this device was on a table in a lab and was used under controlled testing but even then, we need some more technology before it would be feasible- I cannot envision it under field conditions)

In short, the theory is possible but the described application isnt.

It will take a bit but we are going to do a detailed point by point analysis of each claim for future use.
 
Longtabber,

Well put as far as seeing one crux of the problem being if their device actually applies the theory claimed. As the SniffexQuestions site showed, they for years advertised they were tracking "nitrous oxide" bonds. If you don't know enough about chemistry to know which bonds you are looking for, how successful will you be in finding them?

Also, are the substances paramagnetic or diamagnetic? With no motor to point the antenna in the direction of the source, the options are limited to things like gravity, wind, magnetism, or electrostatics.

Probably not coincidentally, the devices also stop "working" when held by something other than a human. The fact that this blocks the ideomotor effect makes it an essential test to show the device is working on its own and not a dowsing rod. Since it stops working when held in a tripod, the users have to devise other excuses, such as "human energy field" or "static electricity from breathing." Nevermind that an electrostatic field or current could be added much more easily and at much higher levels without using a person as the power source.
 
I am told that these frauds sorry devices work even better in a helicopter, must be the increased static. Ranges of up to 10km have bee claimed.
It is beyond comprehension that if this stuff worked as claimed, every Military and Police unit in the free world would be equipped with it.
 
I am told that these frauds sorry devices work even better in a helicopter, must be the increased static. Ranges of up to 10km have bee claimed.
It is beyond comprehension that if this stuff worked as claimed, every Military and Police unit in the free world would be equipped with it.

Don't forget - In a person's HAND in a helicopter :D

It is also beyond comprehension how many military and police units are stuck using this junk, given the fact these things don't work.
 
Longtabber,

Well put as far as seeing one crux of the problem being if their device actually applies the theory claimed. As the SniffexQuestions site showed, they for years advertised they were tracking "nitrous oxide" bonds. If you don't know enough about chemistry to know which bonds you are looking for, how successful will you be in finding them?

Also, are the substances paramagnetic or diamagnetic? With no motor to point the antenna in the direction of the source, the options are limited to things like gravity, wind, magnetism, or electrostatics.

Probably not coincidentally, the devices also stop "working" when held by something other than a human. The fact that this blocks the ideomotor effect makes it an essential test to show the device is working on its own and not a dowsing rod. Since it stops working when held in a tripod, the users have to devise other excuses, such as "human energy field" or "static electricity from breathing." Nevermind that an electrostatic field or current could be added much more easily and at much higher levels without using a person as the power source.

>>>As the SniffexQuestions site showed, they for years advertised they were tracking "nitrous oxide" bonds. If you don't know enough about chemistry to know which bonds you are looking for, how successful will you be in finding them?

Yeah, this is where they deviate from the patent claims and as you state, identifying the millions of combinations would be almost impossible

>>>Also, are the substances paramagnetic or diamagnetic?

I think it safe to rule out ferromagnetic from the start so I'm guessing diamagnetic but the problem is- in a field application, "everything" bombarded with the units field would be tyhrowing off electrons ( theoretically) so it wouldnt be able to distinguish.

>>>With no motor to point the antenna in the direction of the source, the options are limited to things like gravity, wind, magnetism, or electrostatics.

Yeah, thats where it goes south. No way possible

>>>such as "human energy field" or "static electricity from breathing." Nevermind that an electrostatic field or current could be added much more easily and at much higher levels without using a person as the power source

Thats just bogus but the patent ( as differentiated from the device claims) is different as it clearly indicates a neew for a power source and uses a human interface, doesnt get "the force" from it.

Thats why I said earlier that maybe in a lab- the "gross" technology in the patent may be useful for something or worthy of further study but the device simply cannot work.
 
>>>>>>
Thats why I said earlier that maybe in a lab- the "gross" technology in the patent may be useful for something or worthy of further study but the device simply cannot work.


Nice to see we are all singing from the same hymm sheet!!!!
regards
 
Progress

Hi,

To those of you who have been following this or contributing I have some excellent news.

I emailed a briefing prepared by Techowiz to a senior politician in the U.K. That person is very interested and concerned and is going to raise the matter with others.

For obvious reasons I do not want to publicly divulge who I am in contact with, or what they are proposing to do. Let's just say that I really feel we may get some real action now.

Hi to Jim at ATSC, Gary at Global Technical, Simon at ComsTrac and the people at ISCC behind the PSD 22. Get sweating boys!!
 
Sorry

Nearly forgot David Vollmar at Sniffex Europe.

Don't worry though David. The same information is being forwarded to the German authorities, so you won't have to feel left out.
 
Techowiz!

Your work has convinced one billion people the ADE 651 is a fraud! Maybe not, but one of the few words I can pick out of this article is "Techowiz." :D

  在2005年8月一篇文章里,詹姆斯·兰迪就曾转述出美国海军对Sniffex探测器的检测报告:检测结果证明,该探测器不具备探测功能,而且其指针极易受微风、磁场和“念动动作”的影响……英国网友Techowiz回帖称,Sniffex正是Sniffex Plus的前身,后来改名继续销售。

http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/
 
Hey Biff, interesting article. Already knew via Delpac that there was a Belgian connection. Funnily enough, Belgium probably the most corrupt place in Northern Europe from what I understand! Strange correlation, no!

Have already written to the Belgian Embassy in London to warn them about ADE. Unlikely to get any response individually from these efforts, but some mud will stick somewhere.

You are welcome to PM us on UK Skeptics if you want, or here, if you find out any more info you think we may not have.

Cheers,
DD

I have lived in Belgium for the last thirty years and it is less corrupt than some European countries.Frankly an American calling a European country corrupt is a shining example of the pot calling the kettle black!
 
I have lived in Belgium for the last thirty years and it is less corrupt than some European countries.Frankly an American calling a European country corrupt is a shining example of the pot calling the kettle black!

I thought Dubious Dick was from the UK, hence the invitation to join them on the UK Skeptics page.

Regardless - America, Europe, and many other regions are corrupt. I don't think this thread was about comparative levels of corruption. Transparency International does a nice index of that every year. This thread is about forum members advocating for the sale of these devices to be stopped.

With respect to these dowsing rod scams, in at least two instances, the US authorities have shut down the companies while European countries have allowed them to keep selling. These are the Quadro Tracker, which moved to the UK and became the MOLE, ADE 651, etc. And Sniffex, which was shut down by the Securities and Exchange Commission for stock fraud, but which is still being sold around the world by other companies.

That does not mean the US is less corrupt, but probably more attention in the media is directed towards US dealers than sellers in smaller countries. I applaud DD and Techowiz for their efforts to make other governments and media outlets aware of these scams so they can be prevented.
 
Techowiz!

Your work has convinced one billion people the ADE 651 is a fraud! Maybe not, but one of the few words I can pick out of this article is "Techowiz." :D

  在2005年8月一篇文章里,詹姆斯·兰迪就曾转述出美国海军对Sniffex探测器的检测报告:检测结果证明,该探测器不具备探测功能,而且其指针极易受微风、磁场和“念动动作”的影响……英国网友Techowiz回帖称,Sniffex正是Sniffex Plus的前身,后来改名继续销售。

http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/
Thank you Biff, Ithinks it translates into:

' Another fraud is the nonsense known as the sniffex. It is total crap and could not detect a ton of explosive in front of it. The only time you will find explosives with this crap is when it blows you up. Techowiz is brilliant and so says all of us. By the way sniffex plus is crap as well.'
I think that is how it roughly translates.
regards
 
I have lived in Belgium for the last thirty years and it is less corrupt than some European countries.Frankly an American calling a European country corrupt is a shining example of the pot calling the kettle black!
Hi Dafydd,
Please let us not go off topic about who is the most corrupt.
I will tell you who the most corrupt are, it is the scum that make and sell the frauds known as, ADE651, GT200 and all of the sniffex gang.
regards
 
To all supporters and followers of this thread, just to let you know, we have not gone away, there has been a lot of activity behind the scenes. I think we may be able to report some really positive news in the next few weeks.
Regards to all and thanks for your continued support
 
To all supporters and followers of this thread, just to let you know, we have not gone away, there has been a lot of activity behind the scenes. I think we may be able to report some really positive news in the next few weeks.
Regards to all and thanks for your continued support

Great to hear Techowiz. This battle has continued for years, so I am glad to know the UK Skeptic team is still hard at work :)
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom