Merged [Ed] Get involved detecting the ade 651 detector / Jim McCormick arrested

[Dubious Dick]

Great Work

Just to say more power to your elbow Bob!

Have had to take a break from campaigning for a while but hope over next couple of weeks to get back on case here.

So pleased to see others picking up the baton. Keep up the good work. The more the merrier!!

Happy New Years campaigning!

 

[Techowiz]

The Thais have exposed another stick on a swivel 'explosive detector' with REAL testing. Make sure you check out the looks on the faces of the owners of the company (the ones doing the tests) says it all.
Check out the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eZX_KWoWuI

regards

 

[bobcouttie]

A quick update: Going through and testing various designs for a homemade 'bomb detector'. When I showed it off to my partner she said: "you're making the antenna move yourself" so I gave her the device and the expression on her face was wonderful.

Second, shipping magazine ShipGaz is researching the issue and will probably carry an item on hoax bomb detectors in the next issue.

 

[Big Les]

An update on this - the British army* and the Dept for Trade and Industry were involved in promoting these devices to other countries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9377875.stm

* (the Royal Engineers, though bear in mind that they and Sidney Alford were also responsible for showing that they couldn't detect a van full of explosives)

 

[Rolfe]

ADE 651 bomb detector

Have we discussed this bogus bomb detector yet? It's on Newsnight at the moment, and this is the first I've heard of it. However, Ben Goldacre did a number on it over a year ago.

http://www.badscience.net/2009/11/wtf/

Sounds remarkably like the sort of bogus medical device we're all familiar with. Moving the scam on to bomb detection is a leap even for snake oil, though.

Rolfe.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Have we discussed this bogus bomb detector yet? It's on Newsnight at the moment, and this is the first I've heard of it. However, Ben Goldacre did a number on it over a year ago.

http://www.badscience.net/2009/11/wtf/

Sounds remarkably like the sort of bogus medical device we're all familiar with. Moving the scam on to bomb detection is a leap even for snake oil, though.

Rolfe.

Randi brought it up a few years ago, IIRC.

 

[Andy_Ross]

www.skepdic.com has something on them in one of the Newsletters if I remember right. Just fancy dowsing rods.

 

[Rolfe]

That's what it seemed to be from the demonstration on Newsnight. How much did they say governments were being charged for them? Iraq apparently spent $85 million on the things. This is taking snake oil sales into new territory, it seems.

The Newsnight presentation isn't available on Listen Again, but it was noteworthy for alleged "expert" John Wyatt making a complete fool of himself trying to defend the devices and his promotion of them. He must have been getting his lines from the homoeopaths.

Ah, here's Randi's article, originally dated October 2008. Over two years and they're still pushing it. The old one was a fraud right enough but this model really works....

Rolfe.

 

[geni]

Have we discussed this bogus bomb detector yet?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128253

It's on Newsnight at the moment, and this is the first I've heard of it. However, Ben Goldacre did a number on it over a year ago.

http://www.badscience.net/2009/11/wtf/

Sounds remarkably like the sort of bogus medical device we're all familiar with. Moving the scam on to bomb detection is a leap even for snake oil, though.

Not new for dowsing though. Goes at least as far back as WW2.

Not that different from various items that are meant to stop bullets.

 

[geni]

Ah here we are claims to find explosives with this kind of thing go back to at least 1993:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadro_Tracker

Other such devices:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GT200
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniffex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_6

 

[Black Hole]

How much did they say governments were being charged for them? Iraq apparently spent $85 million on the things. This is taking snake oil sales into new territory, it seems.

And the saddest thing is, the Iraqi government and military actually DEFENDS the darn thing. Here's a quote from Major General Jihad al-Jabiri, head of the Interior Ministry's directorate for combat explosives:

"Whether it's magic or scientific, what I care about is detecting bombs. I don't care what they say. I know more about bombs than the Americans do. In fact, I know more about bombs than anyone in the world."

And one from Jawad al-Bulani, Iraqi Interior Minister, who said the ADE had

"managed to prevent and detect more than 16,000 bombs that would be a threat to people's life and more than 733 car bombs were defused. Iraq is considered as a market area for many companies producing such devices ... and there are other rival companies trying to belittle the efficiency of these instruments the government is buying."

What a load of crock! At least the US military is smart enough to not use them.

 

[Stray Cat]

There was a long thread about this in General Scepticism and Paranormal.
The UK conman got arrested sometime last year.
There's a guy on here who has campaigned against this but his thread has slipped off the short list and I can't remember enough about it to do a search.

I was glad to see it's still being highlighted on TV as a scam though... in fact a life threatening scam.
Beats me how anyone in the military falls for it... And I'm always coming up against UFOlogists who claim the military are credible people beyond fallibility!!!

 

[AdMan]

Have we discussed this bogus bomb detector yet? It's on Newsnight at the moment, and this is the first I've heard of it. However, Ben Goldacre did a number on it over a year ago.

http://www.badscience.net/2009/11/wtf/

Sounds remarkably like the sort of bogus medical device we're all familiar with. Moving the scam on to bomb detection is a leap even for snake oil, though.

Rolfe.

I think this is the main thread on the topic.

 

[Big Les]

Relevant Newsnight episode here;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00y14s3/Newsnight_27_01_2011/

Not the first time the militaries of the west have fallen for dowsing. US Marines in Vietnam, Royal Engineers (again) in the early C20th.

 

[Techowiz]

Great to see everyones interest has been reawakened after the newsnight programme.
My posting, on this page of the 11th of January shows a test of the HEDD1 which was featured on last nights programme.
More exposure for the fraudsters.
regards

 

[Dubious Dick]

Delighted

Just want to say that although I have been inactive on this for some time, so good to see it back in the news and the whole story beginning to emerge.

Funnily enough we told the UK Governmnet via the Defence Select Committee about all this about 2 years ago and it took ages for any action (only after NY Times piece in Nov 2009 and then the first Newsnight piece in Jan last year.

We suspect someone was embarassed about the role of REME, which we also told them about, and maybe wanted to keep sctum on that bit of the story.

Anyway, looks like the end for Vollmar at Unival peddling the old S Sniffex, first as Sniffex Plus and now as HEDD1 (have informed the German Defence Committee and UK Embassy about him before, but no joy. Hopefully they cannot ignore the problem any longer!!

As for Jim McCormick, well, he's got to go down now, and we are still wondering how long before Gary Bolton (GT200) will get his collar felt as we say here in blighty.

So, one final word for now. Although he does not seek the limelight, I need to say what a great job Techo has done keeping this alive, and now hopefully more of you will join in to help put the final nails in the coffins of those behind this sorry scam!! Come on folks, write your MP, let's get the conmen and their dirty money...all of it, including that in Iraq, Lebanon and elsewhere bribes were paid..

Yee Ha folks! The end is nigh!!

 

[Dubious Dick]

oh yes...

and if anyone would be kind enough to add links to their blogs or sites for the following that would help maintain good SE rankings for the campaign, Happily mutually link to yours...


http://ade651gt200scamfraud.blogspot.com/2011/01/im-so-excited-i-just-cant-hide-it.html

http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/

http://explosivedetectorfrauds.blogspot.com/

Please be aware that mine (first on list) is somewhat irreverent and angry, so you may not appreciate the style,

 

[Techowiz]

Now on youtube for those outside the UK;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxArxIgB9oA

regards

 

[zooterkin]

Have we discussed this bogus bomb detector yet? It's on Newsnight at the moment, and this is the first I've heard of it.

Did you catch the beginning of the programmes (I'm just watching it on youtube)? There was a suggestion that the Lockerbie bomb was let through because the Maltese police were using the devices.

 

[Ladewig]

As for Jim McCormick, well, he's got to go down now,

Not being British, I don't know what "go down" means. I do hope it means stands trial for murder or negligent manslaughter.