Merged [Ed] Convicted Lockerbie bomber released

[Cicero]

They do serve a life sentence, Cicero. That does not mean they spend their whole lives in jail. This has already been explained

Then why call it a "life" sentence? What does "life" mean in Scotland?

 

[Darat]

Then why call it a "life" sentence? What does "life" mean in Scotland?

A sentence that lasts the life of the prisoner.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Then why call it a "life" sentence? What does "life" mean in Scotland?

And why do you have life sentences if you don't keep them there for life?

My head will explode if I read this ever again.
This link explains UK life sentences.Life Sentence

It's called a life sentence because it applies for the rest of your life. If you are released you can be recalled to prison at any time without a further trial.

I was wrong, my head didn't explode.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Then why call it a "life" sentence? What does "life" mean in Scotland?

The UK isn't much different from the US in this respect. You can have an indeterminate sentence with a tariff (minimum to be served) - which is the same as the US "x years to life" and a determinate sentence/whole life sentence - life sentence with no possibility of parole. I believe all life sentences from a federal court in the US are whole life sentences.

A life sentence is just a sentence in which there will be no automatic release after a certain time served.

A lifer who is released is let out on life licence which means that if (s)he is picked up for even something minor (s)he can be recalled to prison.

 

[Cicero]

The UK isn't much different from the US in this respect. You can have an indeterminate sentence with a tariff (minimum to be served) - which is the same as the US "x years to life" and a determinate sentence/whole life sentence - life sentence with no possibility of parole. I believe all life sentences from a federal court in the US are whole life sentences.

A life sentence is just a sentence in which there will be no automatic release after a certain time served.

A lifer who is released is let out on life licence which means that if (s)he is picked up for even something minor (s)he can be recalled to prison.

A sentence that lasts the life of the prisoner.

It's called a life sentence because it applies for the rest of your life. If you are released you can be recalled to prison at any time without a further trial. Guybrush Threepwood

How can this be enforced if the person in question is no longer under the jurisdiction of Scotland?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

How can this be enforced if the person in question is no longer under the jurisdiction of Scotland?

There were no terms (that I know of) that al-Megrahi had to abide by because he was given compassionate release, not parole. A convict released on life licence would not be allowed to leave the UK.

 

[Cicero]

There were no terms (that I know of) that al-Megrahi had to abide by because he was given compassionate release, not parole. A convict released on life licence would not be allowed to leave the UK.

There about 60 to 100 criminals that die of natural causes while serving sentences in the UK. What were the compelling reasons that made al-Megrahi's case different from these?

It seems that cutting loose a prisoner for "compassionate reason" with no strings attached, as there would be for a parole, is overly gracious.

Suppose the two oncologists and two urologists who provided written documentation about al-Megrahi's condition were wrong. Suppose al-Megrahi double crosses them and lives years instead of months?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

There about 60 to 100 criminals that die of natural causes while serving sentences in the UK. What were the compelling reasons that made al-Megrahi's case different from these?

It seems that cutting loose a prisoner for "compassionate reason" with no strings attached, as there would be for a parole, is overly gracious.

Suppose the two oncologists and two urologists who provided written documentation about al-Megrahi's condition were wrong. Suppose al-Megrahi double crosses them and lives years instead of months?

The circumstances of compassionate release are usually that the prisoner has little to no risk of reoffending, is known to have less than 3 months to live, and often that palliative care can not be provided in the prison hospital. So they would probably be out of prison even if they were not granted compassionate release. They would just take up huge resources by requiring a 24 hour guard.

There are probably lots of people who die in prison, where timescale is not predictable eg people who die of heart disease.

 

[GlennB]

Since Nixon didn't pardon Lt. Calley perhaps you could find another example that has anything to do with Scotland releasing Al Megrah. Calley was paroled after serving three and a half years.

So a convicted mass murderer was moved to house arrest virtually as he was sentenced. Then paroled after a short spell.

Such hypocrisy.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

There about 60 to 100 criminals that die of natural causes while serving sentences in the UK. What were the compelling reasons that made al-Megrahi's case different from these?

How many died of chronic as opposed to acute conditions?

 

[Cicero]

A convict released on life licence would not be allowed to leave the UK.

Not true.


13.14 Travel & Residence Abroad

13.14.1Temporary Absence Abroad

Approval for a life licensee, or those released after serving a sentence of IPP, to travel abroad for short periods (including holidays) will be at the discretion of the ACO in the responsible Area, who must be satisfied that the licensee may be trusted to return and resume the supervisory period. Decisions about temporary absence abroad must be made at ACO level or equivalent. Any doubt whatever should give rise to a refusal and, if necessary, liaison with LRRS for further advice. There is no minimum period of supervision required following release before such an application would be entertained and each case must be considered on its individual merits as part of the risk management plan. Full details of any trip that is due to take place and has been undertaken must be sent to LRRS for information.

13.14.2 Residence Abroad

Life licensees or those released after serving a sentence of IPP are not generally released direct from prison to live abroad, as this would contravene the requirement for supervision after release. Any licensee requesting to live permanently abroad will only receive approval after a thorough risk assessment and agreement of the Assistant Chief Officer and LRRS. Licensees will need to demonstrate that they have successfully adjusted to living in the community. Evidence should also be provided to show that the country the licensee is travelling to is aware of the life licensee’s status and intention to reside there. Each case is considered on its individual merits.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

OK - I didn't know that, I was assuming. I imagine it is rare though - given that a fit and well person is more likely to reoffend than someone on their deathbed....

 

[funk de fino]

Since Nixon didn't pardon Lt. Calley perhaps you could find another example that has anything to do with Scotland releasing Al Megrah. Calley was paroled after serving three and a half years.

Who made the decision to release him (a day after he was sentenced to life) to house arrest pending appeal?

Where did he serve the 3 1/2 years?

How long did he spend in jail and how many days did he serve per victim? How did the families feel about Nixon freeing him to go home?

 

[funk de fino]

There about 60 to 100 criminals that die of natural causes while serving sentences in the UK. What were the compelling reasons that made al-Megrahi's case different from these?

It seems that cutting loose a prisoner for "compassionate reason" with no strings attached, as there would be for a parole, is overly gracious.

Suppose the two oncologists and two urologists who provided written documentation about al-Megrahi's condition were wrong. Suppose al-Megrahi double crosses them and lives years instead of months?

How many have died in prison of cancer in Scotland in the past 10 years?

There have been 31 applications for compassionate release in Scotland in the last ten years. 24 have been granted and only 7 refused and the reason they were resfused was because of the medical opinions. If the medical specialists did not agree that the ilness was sever enough then there was no release.

The Megrahi case is nothing new or surprising in Scottish law. The UK govt releases a Kray under the same type grounds.

 

[Cicero]

Who made the decision to release him (a day after he was sentenced to life) to house arrest pending appeal?

Where did he serve the 3 1/2 years?

How long did he spend in jail and how many days did he serve per victim? How did the families feel about Nixon freeing him to go home?

Where did you get the notion that Nixon pardoned Calley? The extent of Nixon's involvement was that he ordered Calley released from prison pending appeal.

1) The Commanding General of Fort Benning — reduced Calley's sentence to 20 years.

2) The Army Court of Military Review affirmed both the conviction and sentence.

3) The Secretary of the Army reviewed the sentence and findings and approved both, but in a separate clemency action commuted confinement to ten years.

Federal judge Robert Elliott overturned Calley's conviction in 1974. He said the "case was prejudiced by pretrial publicity and Calley was denied access to evidence and President Nixon had publicly aligned himself with the prosecution." An appeals court reversed Elliot's decision and returned Calley to army custody.

BTW: Calley served part of his time at the USDB, the military prison at Fort Leavenworth.

 

[Rolfe]

Just checked the Thursday letters column. Eight more letters.

I make it four in favour of the decision, three neutral (commenting on Brown's behaviour) and one against.

I can't see any evidence that there's an outraged majority in Scotland who are furious with MacAskill. Most people who've followed the case seem mainly to be concerned that the appeal has been dropped so that the truth may never come out.

Nevertheless, it is not sub judice any more, and if Megrah does publish his evidence, that could set the CTers off again with a vengeance.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

Oh wow, it gets even more convoluted.

Prescott: MacAskill was right to release Megrahi

A split has emerged among senior Labour figures after John Prescott, the party's former Deputy Prime Minister, backed Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill's releasing of the man convicted of the Lockerbie bombing.

Mr Prescott said he didn't have "any objections" to Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi getting out of jail, a comment which undermines the position of Labour's Holyrood leader Iain Gray.

Mr Prescott said: "If the man is dying, if compassion is part, as it is, of the Scottish administration and the medical authorities then get proof to that effect, then it's a decision for the legal authority. Scotland has always had a great deal of independence of its legal authority, going back many years, so we have to respect that decision."

The howls of outrage are getting more and more muted. Added to that, the realisation that the scenes in Tripoli are probably explained as people who genuinely believed that Megrahi was an innocent scapegoat, and who wanted to welcome him home waving the flag of the country that released him, has also softened opinion.

Rolfe.

 

[Polaris]

Very true, but hard to get. I also can't figure out why in the U.S. we also give people life sentences then eventually let them out. Prison overcrowding I'd guess.

Gotta make room for those evil marihuana pushers.

 

[funk de fino]

Where did you get the notion that Nixon pardoned Calley? The extent of Nixon's involvement was that he ordered Calley released from prison pending appeal.

1) The Commanding General of Fort Benning — reduced Calley's sentence to 20 years.

2) The Army Court of Military Review affirmed both the conviction and sentence.

3) The Secretary of the Army reviewed the sentence and findings and approved both, but in a separate clemency action commuted confinement to ten years.

Federal judge Robert Elliott overturned Calley's conviction in 1974. He said the "case was prejudiced by pretrial publicity and Calley was denied access to evidence and President Nixon had publicly aligned himself with the prosecution." An appeals court reversed Elliot's decision and returned Calley to army custody.

BTW: Calley served part of his time at the USDB, the military prison at Fort Leavenworth.

Did I repeat that claim or did i change it in the post you quoted? He released him to house arrest after one day despite objections from many. Why release this man to house arrest after being convicted? Should Megrahi have been released to house arrest in Libya until his appeals were heard?

BTW How long did he actually spend in jail? More than 5 months?

 

[Cicero]

Did I repeat that claim or did i change it in the post you quoted? He released him to house arrest after one day despite objections from many. Why release this man to house arrest after being convicted? Should Megrahi have been released to house arrest in Libya until his appeals were heard?

BTW How long did he actually spend in jail? More than 5 months?

I mentioned it because I wanted to know what source claimed Nixon pardoned Calley.

Why indeed. Many convicted felons are allowed bail pending their appeals. Nixon should have not allowed Calley to be free for that time, just as judges should also not allow convicted murderers to be free on bail pending appeal, even if it is a legal to do so.

So if you condemn Nixon for his actions, then you also condemning MacAsskill? Great.