Ebola in America

Yet another day with nobody that was exposed to Duncan showing symptoms.
 
Travis said:
Why show that when it isn't the case? I mean let's be honest here.
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When the time comes, each person will have to decide for themselves if they will be better off inside the quarantine zone or out.

To stop the spread of this infectious and deadly virus it is necessary to track everyone that may have come in contact and keep potentially infected individuals in isolation. If we don't have voluntary compliance with the quarantine, the outbreak is going to be much more difficult if not impossible to stop. It is therefore imperative that the authorities establish trust that they are acting in the best interest of the people affected.

When an incident occurs on an airplane, the authorities have the ability to force compliance even to the point of putting the other passengers at greater risk. But what if it happens in another confined venue like a movie theater or subway? The people sitting nearby might just get up and leave. The authorities may not even know about it until the crowd has dispersed. Then how do you convince those people to come back where they can be crouded into a quarantine unit with other people that might have come in contact with the infectious agent? Many people might see their own personal risk is higher if they return.
 
Dan O. said:
When the time comes, each person will have to decide for themselves if they will be better off inside the quarantine zone or out.

To stop the spread of this infectious and deadly virus it is necessary to track everyone that may have come in contact and keep potentially infected individuals in isolation. If we don't have voluntary compliance with the quarantine, the outbreak is going to be much more difficult if not impossible to stop. It is therefore imperative that the authorities establish trust that they are acting in the best interest of the people affected.

When an incident occurs on an airplane, the authorities have the ability to force compliance even to the point of putting the other passengers at greater risk. But what if it happens in another confined venue like a movie theater or subway? The people sitting nearby might just get up and leave. The authorities may not even know about it until the crowd has dispersed. Then how do you convince those people to come back where they can be crouded into a quarantine unit with other people that might have come in contact with the infectious agent? Many people might see their own personal risk is higher if they return.
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In what might be a tremendous coincidence I've been working on a script about an airborne variant of Ebola getting loose in Denver. The result is the DOD just nukes the city rather than risk it getting out.
 
Travis said:
In what might be a tremendous coincidence I've been working on a script about an airborne variant of Ebola getting loose in Denver. The result is the DOD just nukes the city rather than risk it getting out.
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I know nukes are the go-to trope here, but I don't think that would actually work. It might help, but I can't see a nuke being 100%.
 
Travis said:
In what might be a tremendous coincidence I've been working on a script about an airborne variant of Ebola getting loose in Denver. The result is the DOD just nukes the city rather than risk it getting out.
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Wasn't that the "end all" solution in Outbreak?
 
Travis said:
In what might be a tremendous coincidence I've been working on a script about an airborne variant of Ebola getting loose in Denver. The result is the DOD just nukes the city rather than risk it getting out.
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Seems reasonable. Perhaps they should try a practice run on a US city, just to make sure?

Vermonter said:
Wasn't that the "end all" solution in Outbreak?
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That was a thermobaric. The Andromeda Strain featured nukes, though mainly in the book.
 
catsmate1 said:
The Andromeda Strain featured nukes, though mainly in the book.
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Ahhhh, no.

Both the book and the original Robert Wise movie featured the exact same amount of nukism... nukidity...nukes. There were plans to use nukes to sterilize the original outbreak area and the lab, should the danger of the contagion escaping exist, as it was believed to be a sure-fire way to rid themselves from everything possible. The plan to nuke the original area was set into motion, but delayed for various reasons (the two main ones -- politicians hesitating and a bell not going off -- are used in both). The scientists learn that a nuke would not destroy the organism, but instead fuel its growth and mutation. The organism escapes, the nuke of the lab is set to go off, and must be stopped. Climax of both book and movie.
 
Travis said:
In what might be a tremendous coincidence I've been working on a script about an airborne variant of Ebola getting loose in Denver. The result is the DOD just nukes the city rather than risk it getting out.
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Jesus man! How about a spoiler alert!?:D


Thinking about how the CDC quarantines people together I guess it's just the best option for containing the virus. That way you have only one potentially contaminated area. Tell everyone to get away from the sick person, isolate that person in a bathroom or something and hold tight.
 
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Biscuit said:
Thinking about how the CDC quarantines people together I guess it's just the best option for containing the virus. That way you have only one potentially contaminated area. Tell everyone to get away from the sick person, isolate that person in a bathroom or something and hold tight.
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Telling everybody on the plane that you are too afraid to even set foot on that plane until the hazmat gear arives but they are to sit there wallowing in the contamination indefinitely because you don't want to have to potentially decontaminate a second area. You are putting your economics above the safety of the people you are suposed to be protecting.

If there is Ebola on the plane you need to remove everybody from that plane as soon as possible and bring them into a secondary clean space where they can take the first steps of decontamination such as washing their hands with plenty of soap and water.

As an asside, i see many venues offering antibacterial hand sanitizers. Is there any evidence that these have any effect against a virus? Since it doesn't wash anything off, the virus will just be moved around perhaps helping it find a cut where it can enter.​
 
ApolloGnomon said:
I've worn the full rig with a powered respirator (PAPR mask) and it helps a lot just relieving the wearer from the effort of inhaling through the filters. The added cost and logistics of maintaining PAPR batteries can fall into management's "cut what we can to maintain the most critical equipment" logic. I read an article that said ebola wards were washing and drying gloves at the beginning of the outbreak. That's like washing condoms for reuse.
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https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3318601.html
 
elgarak said:
Ahhhh, no.

Both the book and the original Robert Wise movie featured the exact same amount of nukism... nukidity...nukes. There were plans to use nukes to sterilize the original outbreak area and the lab, should the danger of the contagion escaping exist, as it was believed to be a sure-fire way to rid themselves from everything possible. The plan to nuke the original area was set into motion, but delayed for various reasons (the two main ones -- politicians hesitating and a bell not going off -- are used in both). The scientists learn that a nuke would not destroy the organism, but instead fuel its growth and mutation. The organism escapes, the nuke of the lab is set to go off, and must be stopped. Climax of both book and movie.
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True, though (IIRR) the film didn't really go into details about the sterilisation of the impact site.
 
Dan O. said:
Telling everybody on the plane that you are too afraid to even set foot on that plane until the hazmat gear arives but they are to sit there wallowing in the contamination indefinitely because you don't want to have to potentially decontaminate a second area. You are putting your economics above the safety of the people you are suposed to be protecting.

If there is Ebola on the plane you need to remove everybody from that plane as soon as possible and bring them into a secondary clean space where they can take the first steps of decontamination such as washing their hands with plenty of soap and water.

As an asside, i see many venues offering antibacterial hand sanitizers. Is there any evidence that these have any effect against a virus? Since it doesn't wash anything off, the virus will just be moved around perhaps helping it find a cut where it can enter.​
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I don't think it is just an economic decision. The goal is to prevent the further spread of the virus. The people on the plane are at no greater risk from ebola staying on the plane then they were before. It isn't airborne, it requires close contact with bodily fluids. Isolate the patient and avoid all contact. Why risk spreading the contamination to other areas? Where are they going to take these people? Inside the airport? That just creates greater potential exposure as airports are not designed as containment areas. I could see setting up a tent or something on the tarmac but that would take just as long as getting the guys in suits there.

I doubt the CDC's procedures are based on what is the best economic choice when their goal is to prevent the spread of ebola. I am going to trust their expertise in how to deal with such matters.

The important thing is not to make knee jerk choices like evacuating the plane.
 
Dan O. said:
Telling everybody on the plane that you are too afraid to even set foot on that plane until the hazmat gear arives but they are to sit there wallowing in the contamination indefinitely because you don't want to have to potentially decontaminate a second area. You are putting your economics above the safety of the people you are suposed to be protecting.

If there is Ebola on the plane you need to remove everybody from that plane as soon as possible and bring them into a secondary clean space where they can take the first steps of decontamination such as washing their hands with plenty of soap and water.
As an asside, i see many venues offering antibacterial hand sanitizers. Is there any evidence that these have any effect against a virus? Since it doesn't wash anything off, the virus will just be moved around perhaps helping it find a cut where it can enter.​
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Moving the people off of the plane and into another area would require exposing not only another area but more people to the already exposed individuals on the plane. The people setting up and coordinating the move and quarantine of the clean areas should be properly trained and protected.

As far as hand sanitizer it's primarily ethyl alcohol and water. Ethyl alcohol kills a lot of bacteria and fungus and some viruses.
 
The passengers on the plane have already likely touched the same surfaces the the ill passenger had touched. The best protection for those passengers would be to allow them to wash their hands as soon as possible.

International flights already deplane into a segregated section of the airport terminal. Alternatively, there are sections at the ends of most terminal concourses that can be isolated.

You say that Ebola is not airborne. But the ill passenger is also not likely to be sic with Ebola. That is just the scary bug of the moment. Plenty of other diseases do transmit through the air.

The bottom line is that passenger exposure to whatever was on the plane is being extended.
 
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An informative resource: http://www.kchealthcare.com/media/133353/k-c-ebola-precautions-brief-truscott-final.pdf

70-90% ethyl alcohol (ethanol) based hand sanitizers will destroy lipid enveloped viruses like Ebola very effectively if the organic soiling is not present. This higher concentration than normally recommended is appropriate for disinfecting non-enveloped viruses including Norovirus, thus providing an added safety factor for the more easily disinfected enveloped Ebola virus. (See further rationale for this non- enveloped virus safety factor in the Surface Disinfection section.) The alcohol based hand sanitizer can also be used after a soap and water wash first to remove organic matter (soiling), if present.​
 
Dan O. said:
The passengers on the plane have already likely touched the same surfaces the the ill passenger had touched. The best protection for those passengers would be to allow them to wash their hands as soon as possible.
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I doubt that. He has likely touched his own seat, the bin above him, and maybe a bathroom. It's not like he would go around licking everything.

Further more I believe you have to come in contact with fluids, vomit and such, not just touch the same door knob.

Dan O. said:
International flights already deplane into a segregated section of the airport terminal. Alternatively, there are sections at the ends of most terminal concourses that can be isolated.
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Wasn't an international flight. Even if it was, other international flights would use that same area. Those sections at the end of the terminal are where the gates are. You effectively shut down a number of gates for the duration of the quarentine and the following clean up.

I think it's odd that you fear the passengers touching things but then want to release a bunch of potentially infected people into a large area where they could continue to contaminate.

Dan O. said:
You say that Ebola is not airborne. But the ill passenger is also not likely to be sic with Ebola. That is just the scary bug of the moment. Plenty of other diseases do transmit through the air.
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That's true but irrelevant.

Dan O. said:
The bottom line is that passenger exposure to whatever was on the plane is being extended.
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Potential exposure. At the benefit of limiting potential exposure to only that population and only that location thus negating the rest of humanities potential exposure. I think that is a huge benefit.

I am sure the CDC gave the crew instructions and they isolated the sick person. Every 3rd person on an airplane seems to carry hand sanitizer these days and I am sure the crew has access to more.
 
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