Ebola in America

And what is up with CNN inteviews a guy who runs a freaking House Cleaning Company as some kind of expert on disease?????

Look,no doubt they do a useful and necessary job, but in the end they are just a janitorial service and not exactly medical experts....
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Where is the epidemic? :rolleyes:

LGF answered the sidewalk cleaning matter. See my link above. There was no more risk when they washed the sidewalk.
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I read that link, it was a big assumption that these people knew what they were doing, and thus cleaned it up before these photos. Meanwhile, cops are going inside of small, enclosed spaces with possibly infected individuals and materials without the proper equipment.
 
The uproar reminds me a lot of what went on during the SARS outbreak back in 2003. Lots of fear, little understanding of the actual facts. It reminds me too of the uproar around those with HIV/AIDS back in the earlier years of that disease.
 
I'm pacing back and forth without an idea of what I can do to calm down. Watching news keeps me on edge, ignoring the news makes me feel like I'm missing something. I would lie back in bed, but as I posted earlier, I can't trust my dreams to not scare me, as I had a dream about a zombie outbreak. I wish I could see a therapist, but seeing a therapist can't stop ebola from being a current global problem.
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wollclark said:
Thank you for your concern. You're right, I've just now eaten again; before this I hadn't eaten since yesterday morning. My appetite is basically non-existent because of this situation. :(
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You might be able to benefit a bit from online therapy. You can talk to someone here: http://www.talkspace.com/public/forums-page for free.

Anxiety disorders are not a joke, as I know very, very well -I suffer them, too. The best advice I can give you is: see a medical doctor to make sure your problems don't have a physical basis, seek some counseling to learn ways to calm yourself, and keep a daily routine that includes regular meals, self-care, and a reasonable bed time.
 
wollclark said:
I can't stand this. It's all so nerve wracking.
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I second Carlitos' comment. I know about anxiety. My mom had quite a case of it before my father retired. I can't offer first-hand experience but my advice would be 1) think about something else and stay occupied, and 2) seek out a mental health professional. You can't live your whole life like that, and these guys are there to help. :(
 
wollclark said:
I don't have the money for such a thing. Also, I'm not sure it is irrational, the authorities have been messing up left and right, it seems.
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But that changes nothing about the mode and rate of transmission of the disease. As I said before many times: emotions only tell you about what you feel, they do not inform you about your objective surroundings. Just because someome is afraid of elevators does not in and of itself mean that the elevator they are standing in front of is dangerous.

It absolutely is irrational to draw conclusions contrary to the evidence.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Oh good grief, some ignorant reporter is whining "the whole system broke down, it doesn't look like it's working".

For pity's sake. One person has it, maybe some close contacts. It's not going any further than that. I guess what failed here is the public and the reporters ability to understand infection basics.
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"Failed" ? You're assuming they are not fear-mongering on purpose.
 
Belz... said:
"Failed" ? You're assuming they are not fear-mongering on purpose.
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Of course the media is fear mongering on purpose, that's what they sell. But this reporter was in a tizzy that sounded like he believed because they sent the guy home the first time "the whole system failed." But clearly it didn't, the CDC is all over this one.

Yes, it took a while for hazmat to figure out how to clean the apartment. Yes, the guy lied about being around any sick people in Liberia.

None of that is system failure, rather it's system working despite the errors.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Of course the media is fear mongering on purpose, that's what they sell. But this reporter was in a tizzy that sounded like he believed because they sent the guy home the first time "the whole system failed." But clearly it didn't, the CDC is all over this one.

Yes, it took a while for hazmat to figure out how to clean the apartment. Yes, the guy lied about being around any sick people in Liberia.

None of that is system failure, rather it's system working despite the errors.
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Basically, this situation forced an exercise on the CDC and Dallas medical system which is good. As I understand the patient's timeline he made a tactical decision to lie in Africa and made his escape during the non-transmission incubation week and sought medical attention at the first symptoms. He may have been in denial in the first contact and let them send him home rather than making his probable infection with ebola more clear during that visit, so he gets some amount of blame from me for any subsequent cases. But the entire medical community has now received a wake up call they obviously need.

The phrase "only a matter of time" was used in the other ebola thread and here we are responding to one of the most likely causes of ebola coming across the water.
 
Given my extensive experience with the medical community making these same mistakes over and over with infectious disease risks, I don't have high hopes for any major procedural shake ups. For what ever quality that is our human nature, all too often people have to learn these lessons personally. That someone in Dallas learned them, in a year, new staff they'll have forgotten. And outside of Dallas, I doubt many doctors across the country have began asking people for travel histories when they present with symptoms.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Given my extensive experience with the medical community making these same mistakes over and over with infectious disease risks, I don't have high hopes for any major procedural shake ups. For what ever quality that is our human nature, all too often people have to learn these lessons personally. That someone in Dallas learned them, in a year, new staff they'll have forgotten. And outside of Dallas, I doubt many doctors across the country have began asking people for travel histories when they present with symptoms.
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Which is precisely why so many people are worried: because we all know that doctors and nurses are far too frequently arrogant, negligent, and/or refuse to learn from mistakes, either their own or anyone else's. That's the real reason for the concern here. Add to that the clear evidence of selfish and dangerous duplicity on Duncan's part coupled with the abject incompetence we're seeing in Dallas and of course you're gonna see people freaking out. At least it seems like the proper procedures were followed with the suspected patient in DC. Let's hope that sticks.

It's human nature to be freaking out. It's a legitimately scary thing and the Texas health authorities have done nothing in this case to gain the slightest shred of confidence. They refused to answer even the simplest, most basic questions about the break down of protocol in the Dallas case by multiple people in their press conference that was meant to reassure. All we saw were a bunch of people with supposedly impressive titles standing at a podium spouting cliches and sound bites and not answering the real questions.

Let's go over the gross missteps so far:

1) A man got into the US from Liberia by taking a connecting flight to one of the European countries who haven't instituted a travel ban. He lied about direct contact with an Ebola victim and went on to have contact with perhaps as many as 100 people. Why are we still allowing flights from west Africa or connecting flights with passengers coming from those countries to land in the US? We shouldn't be and neither should Belgium or any other country. There should be no commercial flights into or out of Liberia, Sierra Leone, or Guinea until the epidemic is under control. Only flights by and for agencies coming to help and bringing supplies or evacuating patients should be allowed for the immediate future. The rest of the world needs to insist on this with the understanding that we (all the nations insisting on isolation and sending aide) will provide the necessary food and provisions needed in those countries while travel and supply lines are cut off and we need to honor that. Containing the virus in it's current hot zones is crucial, as is getting the BRN in those affected areas under 1. That's the only way it will burn out.

2) How and why did the staff of a hospital in a major city completely drop the ball when confronted with an obvious African exhibiting classic Ebola symptoms? These symptoms are very similar to those of the flu and can usually be safely assumed to be such. But these symptoms were presenting in a black man speaking English with a distinct African accent and he apparently told them he'd travelled from west Africa/Liberia and they didn't test him for Ebola, gave him antibiotics (for a suspected viral infection?!), and sent him back out into the community? Why? Because he said he hadn't had contact with any Ebola patients? Test to be sure because he could've been lying and it turns out he was.

3) Upon his hospitalization, the people he was living with were not quarantined properly or effectively but told to stay in their apartment. Contaminated items were left in the apartment with the isolated people, increasing the possibility of exposure and infection.

4) The individuals who were told to remain isolated apparently broke the unenforced quarantine and went out into the community, necessitating a police guard to keep them isolated and prevent them from fleeing (I suspect the real reason for the police presence). I know that it's believed that if they aren't symptomatic, they aren't infectious and it's probably true but they should've been quarantined properly anyway if only to minimize public panic, which was an easily forseeable phenomenon.

5) The health authorities did not immediately decontaminate the apartment and disinfect the complex. Instead private contractors were hired to do the job five days after the patient was admitted and his contacts were in the contaminated apartment most of that time.

If Texas can't get it's act together, the feds need to step in and take over, RWNJs be damned.
 
yodaluver28 said:
Which is precisely why so many people are worried: because we all know that doctors and nurses are far too frequently arrogant, negligent, and/or refuse to learn from mistakes, either their own or anyone else's. That's the real reason for the concern here. Add to that the clear evidence of selfish and dangerous duplicity on Duncan's part coupled with the abject incompetence we're seeing in Dallas and of course you're gonna see people freaking out. At least it seems like the proper procedures were followed with the suspected patient in DC. Let's hope that sticks.

It's human nature to be freaking out. It's a legitimately scary thing and the Texas health authorities have done nothing in this case to gain the slightest shred of confidence. They refused to answer even the simplest, most basic questions about the break down of protocol in the Dallas case by multiple people in their press conference that was meant to reassure. All we saw were a bunch of people with supposedly impressive titles standing at a podium spouting cliches and sound bites and not answering the real questions.

Let's go over the gross missteps so far:

1) A man got into the US from Liberia by taking a connecting flight to one of the European countries who haven't instituted a travel ban. He lied about direct contact with an Ebola victim and went on to have contact with perhaps as many as 100 people. Why are we still allowing flights from west Africa or connecting flights with passengers coming from those countries to land in the US? We shouldn't be and neither should Belgium or any other country. There should be no commercial flights into or out of Liberia, Sierra Leone, or Guinea until the epidemic is under control. Only flights by and for agencies coming to help and bringing supplies or evacuating patients should be allowed for the immediate future. The rest of the world needs to insist on this with the understanding that we (all the nations insisting on isolation and sending aide) will provide the necessary food and provisions needed in those countries while travel and supply lines are cut off and we need to honor that. Containing the virus in it's current hot zones is crucial, as is getting the BRN in those affected areas under 1. That's the only way it will burn out.

2) How and why did the staff of a hospital in a major city completely drop the ball when confronted with an obvious African exhibiting classic Ebola symptoms? These symptoms are very similar to those of the flu and can usually be safely assumed to be such. But these symptoms were presenting in a black man speaking English with a distinct African accent and he apparently told them he'd travelled from west Africa/Liberia and they didn't test him for Ebola, gave him antibiotics (for a suspected viral infection?!), and sent him back out into the community? Why? Because he said he hadn't had contact with any Ebola patients? Test to be sure because he could've been lying and it turns out he was.

3) Upon his hospitalization, the people he was living with were not quarantined properly or effectively but told to stay in their apartment. Contaminated items were left in the apartment with the isolated people, increasing the possibility of exposure and infection.

4) The individuals who were told to remain isolated apparently broke the unenforced quarantine and went out into the community, necessitating a police guard to keep them isolated and prevent them from fleeing (I suspect the real reason for the police presence). I know that it's believed that if they aren't symptomatic, they aren't infectious and it's probably true but they should've been quarantined properly anyway if only to minimize public panic, which was an easily forseeable phenomenon.

5) The health authorities did not immediately decontaminate the apartment and disinfect the complex. Instead private contractors were hired to do the job five days after the patient was admitted and his contacts were in the contaminated apartment most of that time.

If Texas can't get it's act together, the feds need to step in and take over, RWNJs be damned.
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And yet, despite the incompetence, there is one case and there might be zero to a couple secondary cases. Ebola just isn't something to worry about. SARS, now that was worth concern. We still managed to stop that bullet. The continuing smoldering of the H5N1 bird flu, definitely a concern as is whatever next deadly new flu pandemic is awaiting us.

Ebola, not so much - all hype, very little potential bite.
 
yodaluver28 said:
Let's go over the gross missteps so far:

1) A man got into the US from Liberia by taking a connecting flight to one of the European countries who haven't instituted a travel ban. He lied about direct contact with an Ebola victim and went on to have contact with perhaps as many as 100 people.
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How can America stop the Ebola liars from lying? Can we also help other countries with their Ebola liars?

Skeptic Ginger said that a normal person will tell lies about Ebola.
 
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William Parcher said:
How can America stop the Ebola liars from lying? Can we also help other countries with their Ebola liars?

Skeptic Ginger said that a normal person will tell lies about Ebola.
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That's a bizarre paraphrasing of what I said.

If you could get a US visa and a plane ticket, you knew you'd been exposed to ebola, and you knew the options of medical care in Liberia were zilch (the guy had just driven to every local hospital with a critically ill pregnant woman and there were no beds), would you or would you not lie and say you hadn't any exposures that you knew of when you got on that plane to the USA, land of a gazillion hospitals with excellent health care?

If you were paying attention to the CDC news conference, what they said was, better to not punish liars so they would present themselves for medical care rather than hide in their hotel rooms.
 
What is the proof that Duncan knew that he had been exposed to Ebola?
 
Perhaps the point is how could he know?

Jeh Johnson, Secretary of Homeland Security, explaining why we aren't stopping direct flights from Liberia and other countries while the UK, as well as other countries are doing so. He did not make me feel any better.

Discussed in the first 3.5 minutes:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/38199733...ola-concerns-isis-threat-to-us/#sp=show-clips

I wish I could quote it directly. They're checking people at the airports, that's the answer he gives. Liberia is screening and we are screening. They are relying on people who may not have symptoms at all, like Mr. Duncan, to know whether or not they themselves believe they are possibly infected.

We can't stop direct flights because we need to be able to fly people in and out who are trying to help. That's the reason to keep all travel unrestricted? The interview mentioned 150 people a day fly in from these places, Mr. Johnson didn't dispute it.

I'm asking - I don't care who appointed this guy or who the president is - is there something to be gained for the U.S. by doing this? Why risk it at all?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
That's a bizarre paraphrasing of what I said.
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it is?
If you could get a US visa and a plane ticket, you knew you'd been exposed to ebola, and you knew the options of medical care in Liberia were zilch (the guy had just driven to every local hospital with a critically ill pregnant woman and there were no beds), would you or would you not lie and say you hadn't any exposures that you knew of when you got on that plane to the USA, land of a gazillion hospitals with excellent health care?

If you were paying attention to the CDC news conference, what they said was, better to not punish liars so they would present themselves for medical care rather than hide in their hotel rooms.
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The most simple reason to not worry, is that despite the highly contagiuos nature, it is not infectious. In other word you can get it if you touch the person or their fluids and soiled stuff, but being in the same room should not be a problem (yeah I know some variant for chimp - reston variant - were shown to be airborne. But the one we get contaminated is not).

In other word, if you read this and are living in the US as neighbors of that infected person, you are still far more likely to die of an influenza infection this winter than get ebola.
 
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