East Indies Devastated By Quake, Tsunamis

Re: Kenya

"Our first priority was to get all boats out at sea into port," said Capt Twalib Hamisi, the ports authority's chief of operations.
I'm not sure if this quote is a hoax or if he really doesn't know what he's talking about. The ocean would be a far safer place than the harbour. Consider the next paragraph:

Nonetheless, 9ft waves did crash over beaches, destroying properties and boats. Hippopotamuses in inland rivers were dragged five miles out to sea.
On some of the pictures and videos from Thailand one can clearly see boats not far from the shore, unharmed by the tsunami - the water was probably not shallow enough for the waves to break that far out.

A guy on a 22 feet Wharram cat on its way from Kho Phi Phi to Phuket didn't even know about the tsunami until he reached Ao Chalong and saw the damages there.

Further from the same link:

"We had just done one dive and were about to do another," he said.

"As we came in we could see the water had gone right out. After we got back on to the beach we could see that all the boats which had been anchored in several feet of water a few minutes earlier were marooned on dry land."
Funny - he doesn't mention anything about the water coming back in .... either this was just a low tide, or he should have been running for his life the next moment, from those 9 feet waves that crashed over the beaches .... :con2: (or did I miss something?)
 
Re: bad warning policies

swstephe said:
i am in south east asia. i had heard about the earthquake only through some website i visit for conspiracy theories ...
I'm just curious, since I know the area a bit: Where were you, and what conspiracy website was it that had the news about the earthquake so early in the morning?
 
rikzilla said:
Now that a tsunami has struck the Indian Ocean there were will probably be a clamor to invest in monitoring and warning systems costing billions. Ironically, these magnificent systems will probably go unused for years, perhaps centuries, before politicians in the future elected by voters whose memory of these tragedies has faded say 'what are these White Elephants for?' and abolish them in favor a more immediately beneficial project. The characteristic of rare events is that they are rare.

Although the geological record shows that large asteroids occasionally strike the earth and that tsunamis sometimes ravage coastal areas, the rarity of their occurrence often precludes the formation of a political consensus to sustain preparations against them. There will be momentary interest, a search for scapegoats and then a gradual return to forgetfulness.

Since Rick won't do it, he has lifted his post from here.

http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/
 
Re: Re: bad warning policies

Bjorn said:
I'm just curious, since I know the area a bit: Where were you, and what conspiracy website was it that had the news about the earthquake so early in the morning?

i'm living in the tiny country of brunei on borneo island, bordering on east malaysia and indonesia. the conspiracy website was http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/. apparently the author subscribed to the usgs.gov mailing list.

... ummm ... and i remember that i learned about it at about 9:30 am, which is 8:30 am indonesia time, about an hour or so after the earthquake.
 
rikzilla said:
Now that a tsunami has struck the Indian Ocean there were will probably be a clamor to invest in monitoring and warning systems costing billions. Ironically, these magnificent systems will probably go unused for years, perhaps centuries, before politicians in the future elected by voters whose memory of these tragedies has faded say 'what are these White Elephants for?' and abolish them in favor a more immediately beneficial project. The characteristic of rare events is that they are rare.

Although the geological record shows that large asteroids occasionally strike the earth and that tsunamis sometimes ravage coastal areas, the rarity of their occurrence often precludes the formation of a political consensus to sustain preparations against them. There will be momentary interest, a search for scapegoats and then a gradual return to forgetfulness.

indonesia has earthquakes daily, many of them major and catastrophic, (although only a tenth the size of last sunday's). the cost wouldn't be that much. just about every town has loud speakers for the muslim call to prayer that could be utilized for an early warning system in the costal towns. monitoring earthquakes is already there, (but apparently very inaccurate, they were insisting it was only 6.4 even while unprecedented tsunamis were hitting.

more likely, the way indonesia is, some government official would take whatever money was allocated for a warning system for the village and use it to rennovate his house, put in a new karaoke system and buy a new suv. its not *the* government, it is the little officials at the local level. they say that killing a man only costs us$300 to be completely exhonerated.
 
Re: Re: Kenya

Bjorn said:
I'm not sure if this quote is a hoax or if he really doesn't know what he's talking about. The ocean would be a far safer place than the harbour. Consider the next paragraph:

On some of the pictures and videos from Thailand one can clearly see boats not far from the shore, unharmed by the tsunami - the water was probably not shallow enough for the waves to break that far out.

A guy on a 22 feet Wharram cat on its way from Kho Phi Phi to Phuket didn't even know about the tsunami until he reached Ao Chalong and saw the damages there.

Further from the same link:

Funny - he doesn't mention anything about the water coming back in .... either this was just a low tide, or he should have been running for his life the next moment, from those 9 feet waves that crashed over the beaches .... :con2: (or did I miss something?)


Apparently the water does get sucked out, which is what caught some people off guard. I agree, though, you want to keep the boats out of the port.

A simple education program would save many lives if this happened again, at a cheap cost.
 
Re: Re: Re: Kenya

a_unique_person said:
Apparently the water does get sucked out, which is what caught some people off guard.
The water is 'sucked out' 10 - 30 seconds before the waves start hitting the shore. The guy said:

"After we got back on to the beach we could see that all the boats which had been anchored in several feet of water a few minutes earlier were marooned on dry land."

Either this is just a low tide he's watching, or he is about to be hit by a tsunami in a few seconds. The story sounds false.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Kenya

Bjorn said:
The water is 'sucked out' 10 - 30 seconds before the waves start hitting the shore. The guy said:

"After we got back on to the beach we could see that all the boats which had been anchored in several feet of water a few minutes earlier were marooned on dry land."

Either this is just a low tide he's watching, or he is about to be hit by a tsunami in a few seconds. The story sounds false.

Maybe he means like this - Boats washed ashore by tsunami waves:

beached%20boats.jpg



Googled from this blog:

http://www.20six.co.uk/fitsko
 
80,427 now. It's actually nearing my guestimate, which was 85,000, and threatens to pass it.
 
Re: Kenya

Frank Newgent said:
From Franks's citation:

"Our first priority was to get all boats out at sea into port," said Capt Twalib Hamisi, the ports authority's chief of operations.
Either the reporter got this wrong or the Captain really screwed the boat owners. In the face of a tsnumani, the safest place to be is in deep water as far from land as possible.

ETA: Oops. sorry, I see others already caught this.
 
As I have a background in building broadband, realtime siesmic networks I will briefly return from self-imposed exile to comment on this tradegy.

The science of tsunamis as presented in this thread is largely accurate. In a nutshell, a tsunami is a fast-moving standing wave caused by crustal displacement after siesmic activity (we will ignore other potential causes for the moment). As has been pointed out, not all undersea earthquakes will cause a tsunami event. The usual cause is a thrust fault in a subduction zone which results in a rise or drop (sometimes both) in the sea floor. This creates a shockwave which radiates out in a circular pattern from the epicenter of the event. The important thing to realize is that the destructive power of the tsunami is not so much the height of the resulting wave, but the extreme velocity of its propagation.

Now, what to do about it. In order to create an early warning system requires three elements.

1. A realtime seismic network, which can detect and localize seismic events hours before any tsunami would reach land.

2. An array of deep-ocean sensors to detect the actual tsunami.

3. An emergency broadcast system to warn coastal communities.

The good news is that 1 and 3 are largely taken care of. There are many realtime seismic nets around the world and most beach communities, even in third world countries, have some sort of rudimentary public alert system. All that is really needed is a few deep ocean sensors and integration with existing emergency broadcast systems. I'm confident that I could deploy an entire system for a single country for less than five million dollars, with a recurring cost of about 500k per annum to cover staffing and maitenence.

Unfortunately, the lack of a realtime alert system is not the root cause of this tradegy. The elephant in the living room, so speak, that no one is talking about is the excessive development of coastal areas, with little attention paid to evironmental issues.

To an earth scientist, beaches are temporary. Anything built on them probably won't be there a hundred years from now. It's just the way it is. At the very least, a reinforced sea wall of at least twenty feet should be built before all dwellings, which themselves should be built only on established coastal terrain.

I am pessimisstic that we have learned anything from this. I'm sure that after the last of the bodies are burned and debris cleaned from the beaches, that the hotels will rebuild their beach bungalows, a hundred feet from high tide with an unobstructed view. And this is all going to happen again. :(

P.S. One brief addendum, I was laid off last year due primarily to budget cuts for the USGS by the current administration. And there is no tsunami warning system in place for the Atlantic coast.
 
EvilYeti said:
The important thing to realize is that the destructive power of the tsunami is not so much the height of the resulting wave, but the extreme velocity of its propagation.
Isn't wave length a primary factor?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Kenya

Bjorn said:
The water is 'sucked out' 10 - 30 seconds before the waves start hitting the shore. The guy said:

"After we got back on to the beach we could see that all the boats which had been anchored in several feet of water a few minutes earlier were marooned on dry land."

Either this is just a low tide he's watching, or he is about to be hit by a tsunami in a few seconds. The story sounds false.
Why false? This often occurs, depending on local topography.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kenya

varwoche said:
Why false? This often occurs, depending on local topography.
I'm not sure what 'this' is that often occurs.

What do you think he was seeing - a low tide with boats marooned, or the water level going down just before the waves hit? Or something else?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kenya

Bjorn said:
I'm not sure what 'this' is that often occurs.

What do you think he was seeing - a low tide with boats marooned, or the water level going down just before the waves hit? Or something else?
Pardon, I misread. Yes, it was almost surely sea level receding in advance of the 1st wave.
 
varwoche said:
Isn't wave length a primary factor?

Not really, the wavelength of a tsunami is measured in kilometers, not meters, like a typical wave. Which is good, as it gives a rather long period between them, usually upwards of an hour or so.

Don't think of a tsunami like a typical ocean wave. Its more like the shockwave of an atom bomb.

Some addenda, I've just seen footage from Sumatara, which was hardest hit (as they were closest to the epicenter). Sixty foot crests were reported. There is no much anyone can do to prepare for that, short of not living any less than 100 feet above sea level.

W. also made a statement regarding building a global tsunami warning system. I'm sure no one from the media will notice his administration has been gutting federal funds for the earth sciences since he's been in office.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kenya

varwoche said:
Pardon, I misread. Yes, it was almost surely sea level receding in advance of the 1st wave.

It is my understanding that the sea level will recede, dramatically, some minutes before the first wave. I've heard that this time is about 10-30 minutes, more than enough time for those shore bound to seek higher ground. I hope everyone reading will keep that in mind the next time they have a beach holiday!
 
EvilYeti said:
Not really, the wavelength of a tsunami is measured in kilometers, not meters, like a typical wave. Which is good, as it gives a rather long period between them, usually upwards of an hour or so.

Don't think of a tsunami like a typical ocean wave. Its more like the shockwave of an atom bomb.
As I understand (based mainly on "Waves and Beaches" by Bascom) most tsunamis come in the form of a tidal surge, versus a breaking wave (again, depending on local topography). Wave length and speed are what distinguishes a tsunami from a wind wave. Take away the length and you'd have a big, fast wave that crashes violently on the beach without inundating land.
 

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