• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Merged Due process in the US

Hercules56 said:
Unacceptable. If there is any evidence whatsoever that ICE knows he is a citizen but refuses to immediately release him, someone should be charged. And someone should resign. It should be a crime for ICE to knowingly hold a US citizen.
Click to expand...
That's halfway there, and so far so good, but I think you still fail to appreciate what it means, or at least what it used to mean, to be an American. You're still letting ICE off the hook by suggesting just that it's a crime to knowingly hold a US citizen. I say it's a crime if they did not know with reasonable certainty that he's NOT. It's not enough just to say they weren't sure. If they did not have actual evidence that he's NOT American, then they have made a mistake which is symptomatic of a dangerous, criminal corruption of what it means to be a citizen of this country. Just because the secret police are not going after you doesn't make it OK for the secret police to be roaming among us.
 
Hercules56 said:
Unacceptable. If there is any evidence whatsoever that ICE knows he is a citizen but refuses to immediately release him, someone should be charged. And someone should resign. It should be a crime for ICE to knowingly hold a US citizen.
Click to expand...

If only you could connect the very-easy-to-connect dots between what happened to this person and what is happening to people you claim don't really deserve due process. Literally the easiest ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ dots to connect.
 
The 4th Circuit has unanimously rejected the Trump administration's motion for an emergency stay of proceedings pending appeal in the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case. Judge J. Harvie Wilkinson's opinion is pretty scathing, calling the government's behavior "shocking." In pointing out that the government must do more to facilitate Abrego Garcia's release and restore to him the right of due process, the Judge Wilkinson cites to Loper Bright to find that the executive no longer enjoys the privilege to say what words mean in the execution of its duty. More specifically, he writes :—
“Facilitation” does not sanction the abrogation of habeas corpus through the transfer of custody to foreign detention centers in the manner attempted here.
Click to expand...
He goes on to caution that an executive that rattles a saber regarding its intent to deport U.S. citizens doesn't bode well, and to caution further than an executive that demands respect for its inherent powers must respect the inherent and independent power of the judiciary and cannot maintain such demands in light of flagrant disobedience to court orders and threats to impeach judges for nothing more than ruling against them.

Judge Wilkinson is a Reagan appointee on senior status, with impeccable conservative credentials. It's going to be very hard for the Trump administration to spin this as an "activist" judge's wrong-headed opinion.
 
I'm there is still some semblance of courts fighting the good fight. I doubt it'll go anywhere, but I'm glad they're still trying.

JayUtah said:
Judge Wilkinson is a Reagan appointee on senior status, with impeccable conservative credentials. It's going to be very hard for the Trump administration to spin this as an "activist" judge's wrong-headed opinion.
Click to expand...
lol. At this point Dump could say the judge is a reptillian from Mars and the cult will lap it up.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
I'm there is still some semblance of courts fighting the good fight. I doubt it'll go anywhere, but I'm glad they're still trying.


lol. At this point Dump could say the judge is a reptillian from Mars and the cult will lap it up.
Click to expand...

trump is clearly insane and going to crash and burn everything. if anyone doesn’t see that, i don’t know what to tell you. it becomes more undeniable every day.

it’s going to take people with some balls to get the ball rolling on stopping it. they’re around, not sure how many. but even his supporters must be getting rattled.
 
For someone who has an interest in mediaeval history this is familiar. Magna Carta in what was written (over an eight hundred years ago) said little, but the the principle that the crown was subject to the law created modern liberties. Judges used the little that Magna Carta said about the relationship between the King and the aristocracy to create rights that applied to all people. It is astonishing that mediaeval judges were prepared to stand up to the King and say that this was not lawful and even more astonishing that the opinion of the judge was set above that of the King. (power swung during mediaeval times but by 1500s it was clear the crown could only do what was lawful, whilst the crown might manipulate the process, it was till bound by it.

Trump is like an absolute monarch, who believes his divine right to rule is superior to his requirement to rule lawfully, Charles 1 tried to make this case and it didn't end well for him.
 
Planigale said:
For someone who has an interest in mediaeval history this is familiar. Magna Carta in what was written (over an eight hundred years ago) said little, but the the principle that the crown was subject to the law created modern liberties. Judges used the little that Magna Carta said about the relationship between the King and the aristocracy to create rights that applied to all people. It is astonishing that mediaeval judges were prepared to stand up to the King and say that this was not lawful and even more astonishing that the opinion of the judge was set above that of the King. (power swung during mediaeval times but by 1500s it was clear the crown could only do what was lawful, whilst the crown might manipulate the process, it was till bound by it.

Trump is like an absolute monarch, who believes his divine right to rule is superior to his requirement to rule lawfully, Charles 1 tried to make this case and it didn't end well for him.
Click to expand...


Nice perspective. The French have had 5 constitutions as a republic; Trump will force constitutional changes, hopefully in response to him.

A friend in sixth form told me that the US government setup is very similar to the British setup of 1776, but with an elected president replacing the king, (with similar powers to the British monarch of the time) and likewise for the Senate and Lords and Congress and Commons.

It made sense to me to understand the different balance of powers
 
Last edited:
Getting back briefly to the subject of deportation and how crazy this has become, here's a little tidbit from Jayutah's end of the country:

www.deseret.com

BYU grad student from Japan has visa revoked

Attorney for computer science Ph.D. candidate believes a fishing license incident from years ago may have triggered visa revocation.
www.deseret.com www.deseret.com

Gotta protect those fish against foreign invasion!
 
Tero said:
This was mass emailed to many immigrants. Same eording. Many of them green card holders. Two Finns so far.
Click to expand...
I've read about the theory that it was simply sent to everyone in the USCIS database. If true, that's cruel ineptitude of a very high order and should be immediate grounds for termination and reparative action.
 
bruto said:
Getting back briefly to the subject of deportation and how crazy this has become, here's a little tidbit from Jayutah's end of the country:

www.deseret.com

BYU grad student from Japan has visa revoked

Attorney for computer science Ph.D. candidate believes a fishing license incident from years ago may have triggered visa revocation.
www.deseret.com www.deseret.com

Gotta protect those fish against foreign invasion!
Click to expand...
So the stupid thing here is that MAGAts are continually whining about immigrants coming here _illegally_ and open borders and all that crap. But in the meantime, they are jizzing all over themselves to depart immigrants who came here legally.

It's almost as if the "it would be ok if they came here through the proper legal process" claims are....bull crud.

It's not about illegal immigration. It's about getting rid of the darned furriners...
 
ponderingturtle said:
Of course stripping anyone from due process strips everyone from due process. With out due process how can anyone ever prove they are a citizen after all.
Click to expand...

I believe that this has come up in the UK.

People (or at least one person) deported, because they could not prove that they were a citizen.

It may be related to the 'Windrush Scandal' https://www.bbc.com/news/education-46445109
 
Astonishing Fourth Circuit Appeals Court rejection of DOJ's motion to stay:

Amazing, court ruling within one day! Here's a sample:

It is difficult in some cases to get to the very heart of the matter. But in this case, it is not hard at all. The government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons without the semblance of due process that is the foundation of our constitutional order. Further, it claims in essence that because it has rid itself of custody that there is nothing that can be done. This should be shocking not only to judges, but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from courthouses still hold dear.

BTW, this was a unanimous ruling written by a conservative judge appointed by Reagon. It even has quotes from the Federalist. Gota love it.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom