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Merged Due process in the US

steenkh said:
It has surprised me that in the very short time of Trump’s presidency, it has been possible to find thousands of employees for ICE and other agencies who are without conscience, and are happy to execute illegal and arbitrary orders, ripping up families, and ruining lives.

I didn’t think I was naive, but there you are.
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It is always the way. Humans have a behaviour that seeks to "normalise" any environment - it's how lots of people manage to live despite their terrible conditions.
 
steenkh said:
It has surprised me that in the very short time of Trump’s presidency, it has been possible to find thousands of employees for ICE and other agencies who are without conscience, and are happy to execute illegal and arbitrary orders, ripping up families, and ruining lives.
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I mean, they were ripping families apart during his last presidency, too. ICE didn't exactly have a stellar record before that, either. Not the people at airports determining whether you can enter the US either, for that matter.

Gulliver Foyle said:
Who's going to speak up when they come for you?
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Not me, that's for sure. I'll be in the leopard thread.
 
Aside from the Trump era things, Garcia met his wife in 2016. Since he had some sort of status, they did not apply for a better visa. They priobably should have married as soon as possible and applied for the green card. It may require a new entry to the US, from Canada for example.
en.wikipedia.org

Deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
To qualify for a Green Card, you must be admissible to the United States. Reasons why you may be inadmissible are listed in INA 212(a) and are called grounds of inadmissibility.
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www.uscis.gov

Green Card for Immediate Relatives of U.S. Citizen | USCIS

www.uscis.gov
The INA link above has some legal language related to "parole."
 
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Since the president of El Salvador says his country cannot release and send back any prisoners the US sent them because they are criminals, and the US government says it cannot obtain their release because they are out of US jurisdiction, it seems they must all rot in jail until they die.

Fresh supplies of handsoap required for both sides.
 
Andy_Ross said:
AOC: I saw on Fox, Jeanine Pirro says that they found so many babies and two year olds and four year olds receiving social security. I got a notice for you Jeanine Pirro: those babies receive social security because their parents died. That’s not a waste. That’s humanity. That’s America. That’s the country that we fight for.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1912329811034534313
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or they’re disabled or in foster care or etc etc etc
 
theprestige said:
Which was a weaselly, disingenuous response.
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Excuse me?

I unequivocally noted that you were correct, that the penalty A.G. Bondi mentioned was indeed part of the law, and had been all along. I unequivocally acknowledged my error in believing otherwise.

I could have made some hay about you previously having tried to write off Bondi's statement as somehow insincere, since you were also laboring at the time under the same misconception that the law provided no penalty. But I didn't, because you withdrew those statements and apologized for them, and because you deserve legitimate credit for having finally found an appropriate law citation.

Explain what was "weaselly" about my post. Explain what was "disingenuous" about it. I too was prepared to take my lumps and move on. But now we're going to have to talk about it.

theprestige said:
I have no opinion about that.
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What a weaselly, disingenuous response.
 
steenkh said:
It has surprised me that in the very short time of Trump’s presidency, it has been possible to find thousands of employees for ICE and other agencies who are without conscience, and are happy to execute illegal and arbitrary orders, ripping up families, and ruining lives.
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There have always been people who get into law enforcement because it gives them legal cover to act like bullies. The Trump administration has merely made it less necessary for these bullies to adopt some discretion as cover.

bruto said:
Perhaps I wasn't clear: In the link above, the victim is known. The agents are hooded and masked! e.t.a. also armed, in unmarked cars.
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This is nothing new in principle, but rather new in scope. Back during the first Trump presidency, the local police attending to local protests had removed or obscured their name plates and badge numbers. Ostensibly this was to prevent reprisals against them, but it also serves the purpose of making it difficult to hold individual officers accountable for misbehavior. The dispute I personally witnessed were amplified by individual police officers who escalated them to physical violence as a pretext for arrest.

This harks back decades to when various governments tried to make it unlawful to record the actions of police. They lost that battle, so now the tactic is to simply be unrecognizable. This has more to do with the Confrontation clause than the Due Process clause.

The notion that a person can be snatched off the street by persons unknown acting under apparent authority of law is not really what I consider proper American values.
 
theprestige said:
Which was a weaselly, disingenuous response.

I have no opinion about that.
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You have ZERO opinion about the President of the United States saying he supports the idea of deporting US citizens to foreign prisons that are notorious for violence and zero Due Process?

Interesting. Kinda sound like the "Good German" philosophy of 80 years ago.

:(
 
JayUtah said:
Excuse me?

I unequivocally noted that you were correct, that the penalty A.G. Bondi mentioned was indeed part of the law, and had been all along. I unequivocally acknowledged my error in believing otherwise....
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Yes I to am very confused as to why he chose to insult your very honest acceptance that we were mistaken.
 
JayUtah said:
There have always been people who get into law enforcement because it gives them legal cover to act like bullies. The Trump administration has merely made it less necessary for these bullies to adopt some discretion as cover.


This is nothing new in principle, but rather new in scope. Back during the first Trump presidency, the local police attending to local protests had removed or obscured their name plates and badge numbers. Ostensibly this was to prevent reprisals against them, but it also serves the purpose of making it difficult to hold individual officers accountable for misbehavior. The dispute I personally witnessed were amplified by individual police officers who escalated them to physical violence as a pretext for arrest.

This harks back decades to when various governments tried to make it unlawful to record the actions of police. They lost that battle, so now the tactic is to simply be unrecognizable. This has more to do with the Confrontation clause than the Due Process clause.

The notion that a person can be snatched off the street by persons unknown acting under apparent authority of law is not really what I consider proper American values.
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It opens the gate to anyone at all kidnapping whomever they want, by simply disguising themselves with the phrase, "I'm from ICE!"
 
What is stopping ICE from deporting anyone and everyone that they suspect of gang affiliations to El Salvador, without hard evidence and Due Process? What about US citizens, are we really protected? And if so, for how long?
 
Hercules56 said:
You have no evidence that he paid income tax. Day laborers who solicit work at Home Depot are paid in cash and its all off the books.
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What's your evidence he was a day laborer that solicited work at the Home Depot? From everything I read he was a registered apprentice sheet metal worker. You, obviously, have no ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ clue how apprenticeships work at all, do you? You can just admit you don't, you don't have to cook up some bull ◊◊◊◊. Just openly say, "No, I don't know how apprenticeships work so I made a completely uneducated statement about this man working off the books". Just admit you're wrong.
Hercules56 said:
Had he applied for asylum when he first got here, like he should have, it would have likely been approved and he given a permit to work in the USA legally, with all the wonderful taxes that come with it.
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Well, he was paying taxes since he was legally working as an apprentice sheet metal worker using his work permit that was provided to him due to his protected status in the US when he was illegally arrested and deported means nothing you said here makes any ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ difference, does it?
Hercules56 said:
Kinda sad how you guys refuse to acknowledge his many mistakes and poor choices.
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Because none of those "mistakes or poor choices" are relevant here, are they? He was deported as a protected citizen. The only thing you're trying to do is victim blame and excuse the administrations ◊◊◊◊ up. I don't know why you're doing it, I don't know what you're gaining from it, and I don't know why you think you have a point here. I would, personally, be embarrassed but to each their own. The administration themselves even said they ◊◊◊◊◊◊ up.
jimbob said:
Snipped lots of good stuff but this is possibly key. He was deported illegally and his civil rights were violated illegally. But those that did it have no fear of legal retaliation as they are protected by the president's pen
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Criminally, not sure that they have any protection from civil action, but I'm open to being corrected.
 
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Hercules56 said:
are we really protected?
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Jesus Christ, dood, are you ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ reading what you're posting? THE GUY WHO GOT DEPORTED LITERALLY HAD PROTECTED STATUS IN THE U.S. and you're doing nothing but condoning the US deporting him. Of course you're not protected. I am completely baffled by this buckshot logic you're using here.
 
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