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Merged Due process in the US

Unfortunately the USA cannot force El Salvador to respect due process.
Which is why nobody should be deported there.

And Trump is floating the idea of "deporting homegrown criminals" aka "citizens"

 
If we are going to fight against Trump's disregarding of court orders, and fight against his deportation of people, can't we do it for someone who is decent and follows the rules????
This is the stupid ◊◊◊◊ you say that's got people yelling at you. Before long, you'll look the other way when someone gets deported for petty theft or violating curfew.

You keep saying you want due process, then making excuses for those who violate that very process. Make up your mind and stick with it.
 
Fact: his application for asylum was denied. Why? You are supposed to apply for asylum within one year of coming to the USA, be it legally or illegally. He however decided to wait almost a decade till after he was busted for working in the USA illegally, to ask for asylum.

This guy really screwed up. If he had even attempted to play by the rules, even though he came here illegally and was working here illegally, he would probably be in a much better place right now.

If we are going to fight against Trump's disregarding of court orders, and fight against his deportation of people, can't we do it for someone who is decent and follows the rules???? Why do we have to do it for someone who clearly gave USA a gigantic middle finger.... Until he is caught and then begs us for help.


Sigh.
A fundamental issue here is that you have chosen to adopt the dishonest framing of those who are working to sabotage the US by invoking any of this. That's not to say that the concerns have no place or are unworthy of discussion, of course, but their place for airing can only reasonably be after due process is secured. Due process is exactly what's in question and is exactly what's being argued must be secured, though, which is why you're meeting so much opposition when you're dragging up stuff like this as if it served as anything other than cover for those trying to effectively remove the right to due process from all of us.
 
The fact is it doesn't make a flying ◊◊◊◊ what the man did before he got detained. The question is, "Was he in the US legally at the time of his arrest and deportation?" The answer to that question is a resounding, "yes". It's documented, it's well-established that he was in the US as a protected individual.

All of Hercules hand-wringing, victim blaming, and "JAQ"ing around on the topic is completely irrelevant. The man was illegally deported, the Trump admin has admitted it, and the SCOTUS has ruled the admin to get him back. There is no reason the US can't do it. Trump has no issues whipping his dick out and waving it at our allies for no reason at all. The ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ dumb ass excuses made by the right that we can't force El Salvador to give the man back is inane. It's nonsensical. It's water carrying ass hattery of the highest order. Trump can just threaten tariffs, or sanctions, or any other of a thousands methods to push El Salvador to get him back. The fact is Trump doesn't want to and anyone saying any differently is completely and entirely full of ◊◊◊◊ to the point their eyes are brown.
 
Turns out she wasn't speaking colloquially at all. She was simply reciting the law as written. I apologize for misrepresenting the situation.
Indeed, right there at the bottom of the chapter. I stand corrected, thank you. The punishments apply "upon conviction," which of course invokes due process requirements.
 
See the difference between a prison and a concentration camp is a little thing called due process...

"What distinguishes a concentration camp from a prison (in the modern sense) is that it functions outside of a judicial system. The prisoners are not indicted or convicted of any crime by judicial process."

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/concentration-camps-1933-39

So that in the US holocaust museum there for you.
Or they could just look up the history of Manzanar, a reminder that the USA isn't above sending its own citizens to concentration camps.
 
The USA did not harm this guy...
The U.S. kidnapped him and sent him to a country where he is likely to be tortured and/or killed, in violation of the Constitution and a court ruling specifically in his favor. Sounds like quite a lot of harm.

But El Salvador had already said no.
That does not end the process or extinguish the legal obligation.

No, he came here illegally.
He arrived here illegally. That is not per se a crime, nor per se evidence of intent to commit a crime or to behave in any way immorally or unlawfully.

Then he worked here illegally for years.
So did Elon Musk. I guess we should send him to El Salvador without a trial too.

Abrego Garcia was, at the time of his unlawful capture and rendition, properly registered as an alien and protected from deportation to El Salvador by a perfectly lawful court order. Your moral disapprobation is simply irrelevant.

Never made any attempt to apply for asylum.
Straw man, and irrelevant. One need not claim asylum in order to obtain court orders in one's favor preventing specific actions.

All this "He was asking for it" argument is really quite sickening. Even granting the specious claims you're making, nothing about arriving here illegally, working illegally, or failing to follow some specific avenue to lawful residence does not justify what was done to him, what continues not to be done on his behalf, or the callous disregard with which you and others seem to regard his situation. If you think he somehow deserves what he's currently suffering, then I question your moral compass.
 
Well I'm convinced.

Abrego Garcia was not charged with a crime, and on the basis of his undocumented status was transferred to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which moved to deport him. Abrego Garcia sought asylum, and during those proceedings, ICE claimed Abrego Garcia was a member of MS-13.

To support this claim, ICE relied on what’s known as a Gang Field Interview Sheet, supplied by the Prince George’s County police.
It claimed that Abrego Garcia wore a Chicago Bulls hat and hoodie, that this was evidence of membership in MS-13, and that a “confidential source” had related that he was a member of the gang’s Westerns clique. But that operates in New York, where he never lived.
Whole ◊◊◊◊ load of Chicago utes can now be renditioned to slave prison.

JFC!
 
Here you go:

§1306. Penalties​
(a) Willful failure to register​
Any alien required to apply for registration and to be fingerprinted in the United States who willfully fails or refuses to make such application or to be fingerprinted, and any parent or legal guardian required to apply for the registration of any alien who willfully fails or refuses to file application for the registration of such alien shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall, upon conviction thereof, be fined not to exceed $1,000 or be imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

Turns out she wasn't speaking colloquially at all. She was simply reciting the law as written. I apologize for misrepresenting the situation.

HTH. HAND!
The word she missed was "wilfully". And this legislation is to do with immigration and immigrants. Context matters.
 
Indeed, right there at the bottom of the chapter. I stand corrected, thank you. The punishments apply "upon conviction," which of course invokes due process requirements.
Come on now. The president did not exceed his authority and invent a new crime. The criminal penalties are spelled out in the relevant law. The Press Secretary spoke truthfully to the public. Nothing in what she said, nor in the EO she refers to, suggests bypassing due process. In fact there are several passages in the EO that suggest the opposite. @Tero , take note.
 
The White House

These Sick Criminals Are Who Democrats and the Legacy Media Are Defending
Brutal killers and rapists— all taken off our streets in just the past week thanks to the tireless work of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).

If Democrats and the legacy media had their way, these sick criminals would still be roaming free.
 
Good lad JD

JD Vance
@JDVance

Replying to @Mikel_Jollett
Are you proposing that we invade El Salvador to retrieve a gang member with no legal right to be in our country?

Where in the Supreme Court’s decision does it require us to do that?
 
The U.S. kidnapped him and sent him to a country where he is likely to be tortured and/or killed, in violation of the Constitution and a court ruling specifically in his favor. Sounds like quite a lot of harm.


That does not end the process or extinguish the legal obligation.


He arrived here illegally. That is not per se a crime, nor per se evidence of intent to commit a crime or to behave in any way immorally or unlawfully.

Some would argue that coming to a country illegally and working illegally in that country for years, is at the very least a sure sign of dishonesty and total lack of respect for the nation where you live.


So did Elon Musk. I guess we should send him to El Salvador without a trial too.

Abrego Garcia was, at the time of his unlawful capture and rendition, properly registered as an alien and protected from deportation to El Salvador by a perfectly lawful court order. Your moral disapprobation is simply irrelevant.


Straw man, and irrelevant. One need not claim asylum in order to obtain court orders in one's favor preventing specific actions.

All this "He was asking for it" argument is really quite sickening. Even granting the specious claims you're making, nothing about arriving here illegally, working illegally, or failing to follow some specific avenue to lawful residence does not justify what was done to him, what continues not to be done on his behalf, or the callous disregard with which you and others seem to regard his situation. If you think he somehow deserves what he's currently suffering, then I question your moral compass.
I have never said he deserves anything other than Due Process. That is the only thing he clearly deserves.
 
Come on now. The president did not exceed his authority and invent a new crime.
Agreed.

Nothing in what she said, nor in the EO she refers to, suggests bypassing due process.
Agreed. However, that hasn't stopped the U.S. from ignoring due process guarantees, which is what this thread is about. In fact, as I understand it, Mr. Abrego Garcia was, in fact, a registered alien, which is how he got the protective order in his case.

You seem to have a lot of faith that the Trump administration believes in honoring the due process guarantee in the case of aliens. I don't.
 
‘Treated like a criminal': US citizen says he was detained returning from Canada
Bachir Atallah, a real estate attorney from New Hampshire, says he and his wife, Jessica Fakhri, were stopped crossing from Canada into Vermont

A New Hampshire real estate attorney and American citizen returning home from Canada says he was detained at the border without an explanation.

Bachir Atallah and his wife, Jessica Fakhri, were traveling back from a quick family trip Sunday when they say U.S. Customs and Border Protection stopped them when reentering the country in Vermont.

"I literally drove my car to Canada for the weekend, and on the way back, I was treated like a criminal," said Atallah, who has been a U.S. citizen for 10 years.

An official for U.S. Customs and Border Patrol on Tuesday called Atallah's account "blatantly false and sensationalized." Read the full statement below.

 
Some would argue...

Some would argue the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ Earth is flat, too. People saying ◊◊◊◊ doesn't mean anything.
that coming to a country illegally and working illegally in that country for years, is at the very least a sure sign of dishonesty and total lack of respect for the nation where you live.

Working to build communities shows lack of respect? Getting gainful employment and paying taxes is showing a lack of respect? Did this make sense in your head before you said it out loud?
I have never said he deserves anything other than Due Process. That is the only thing he clearly deserves.

All you've done is make constant excuses as to why he shouldn't be here, and why he's the problem. Yes, yes, we all see you put this little asterisk statement at the end of it, but it's transparent as hell.
 
Some would argue the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ Earth is flat, too. People saying ◊◊◊◊ doesn't mean anything.


Working to build communities shows lack of respect? Getting gainful employment and paying taxes is showing a lack of respect? Did this make sense in your head before you said it out loud?


All you've done is make constant excuses as to why he shouldn't be here, and why he's the problem. Yes, yes, we all see you put this little asterisk statement at the end of it, but it's transparent as hell.
You have no evidence that he paid income tax. Day laborers who solicit work at Home Depot are paid in cash and its all off the books.

Had he applied for asylum when he first got here, like he should have, it would have likely been approved and he given a permit to work in the USA legally, with all the wonderful taxes that come with it.

Kinda sad how you guys refuse to acknowledge his many mistakes and poor choices.
 

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